4 ms·

Handwavy dismissals from Mormons about the high suicide rate all have one thing in common: they may explain higher than average baselibe levels, but they don't

Handwavy dismissals from Mormons about the high suicide rate all have one thing in common: they may explain higher than average baselibe levels, but they don't explain the growth. It is certainly plausible, and as empirical understandings improve, Mormonism is certainly being honed in on as a significant factor. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286

thedevil 8y ago
From the same publication, teen suicide rates are rising across the US: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girls_us_59848b64e4b0cb15b1be13f4 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girl...
- saosebastiao 8y ago
  And while the rate of child and teen suicide has risen by 23.5 percent nationally during the years covered by the study, it "more than doubled" (a 136 percent rise) in Utah, according to researchers from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cdc-probes-troubling-rise-in-suicide-among-utah-teens https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cd...
  - thedevil 8y ago
    So some possible hypotheses (in what I would consider most to least plausible): 1) Whatever causes the higher overall rates in Utah (altitude and/or other variables) that interacts in a non-linear way with whatever is causing the national increase. 2) Whatever factor that is driving the national increase is more influential in Utah for whatever reason. (e.g. maybe social networks are more harmful to more-judgmental Mormon communities) 3) There is some recent change in Mormon culture that has driven a change in teen suicide rates. 4) Mormon culture has caused a change in suicide rates despite not changing. Do you have any support that would make (3) or (4) sound more reasonable? Or do you have another hypothesis?
    - coryfklein 8y ago
      One particularly strong datum in favor of 3/4 is the "November policy". On November 5th 2015 the church released a new policy: * Claimed it is from God * If you are gay then you are declared apostate and excommunicated (the strongest punishment that can be applied by the church, with extreme social repercussions) * If your parents are gay, you're not allowed to be baptized at age 8 like other children, even given parent permission. Instead you must wait until age 21 and submit a signed affidavit disavowing your parents' relationship * If your parents are gay you cannot get a baby blessing Along with this policy came a strong increase in the anti-gay rhetoric from the prophets and apostles at the bi-annual general conference that all members attend. Try putting that data point on a chart that shows the suicide rate and the correlation gets eerie.
      - thedevil 8y ago
        That sounds horrible, but I'm not sure that explains the numbers. A quick internet search suggests that LGBT youth have 3x the suicide attempt rate. https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicid... Given that LGBT is maybe 4-10% of the population of the population, it's not likely to be driving such a big spike in the total numbers. I'd be interested in a more careful breakdown if anyone has it. Additionally, my interactions with Mormons suggests them (and pretty much everyone else) becoming more tolerant of LGBT, not less. However, that's anecdotes, not data.
        coryfklein 8y ago
        I 100% agree that everyday interactions with Mormons suggests they are becoming more tolerant, and most of them struggle with the policies that are set by the church. The issue is that the uppermost echelon of church leadership is a lifetime calling, they aren't replaced until one of them dies. This leads to the prophets and apostles all being the _oldest_ members of the church, and usually the most regressive. Combine that with the fact that obedience to leadership is tantamount to even personal revelation, and you get lots of hate speech over the pulpit even while the members in the pews are actually rather tolerant. Let me run the numbers here though - if we have 100,000 youth then in 2015 there were 11 (0.011%) that committed suicide. If 4% of them are gay, that is 4,000 gay youth, and if their suicide rate is 3x the average then we'd expect 0.033% or 1-2 LGBT youth suicides. If that were the end of it, I'd agree with you that it can't explain the near doubling. But would we expect LGBT youth to commit suicide more often, less often, or the same in a community with the above "November policy" kind of standards? I'd wager that LGBT youth suicides in Utah account for closer to 30% of all youth suicides. I agree it doesn't completely explain the rise, but it seems a significant enough factor to be including in discussion.

thedevil 8y ago

From the same publication, teen suicide rates are rising across the US: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girls_us_59848b64e4b0cb15b1be13f4 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girl...

saosebastiao 8y ago
And while the rate of child and teen suicide has risen by 23.5 percent nationally during the years covered by the study, it "more than doubled" (a 136 percent rise) in Utah, according to researchers from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cdc-probes-troubling-rise-in-suicide-among-utah-teens https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cd...
- thedevil 8y ago
  So some possible hypotheses (in what I would consider most to least plausible): 1) Whatever causes the higher overall rates in Utah (altitude and/or other variables) that interacts in a non-linear way with whatever is causing the national increase. 2) Whatever factor that is driving the national increase is more influential in Utah for whatever reason. (e.g. maybe social networks are more harmful to more-judgmental Mormon communities) 3) There is some recent change in Mormon culture that has driven a change in teen suicide rates. 4) Mormon culture has caused a change in suicide rates despite not changing. Do you have any support that would make (3) or (4) sound more reasonable? Or do you have another hypothesis?
  - coryfklein 8y ago
    One particularly strong datum in favor of 3/4 is the "November policy". On November 5th 2015 the church released a new policy: * Claimed it is from God * If you are gay then you are declared apostate and excommunicated (the strongest punishment that can be applied by the church, with extreme social repercussions) * If your parents are gay, you're not allowed to be baptized at age 8 like other children, even given parent permission. Instead you must wait until age 21 and submit a signed affidavit disavowing your parents' relationship * If your parents are gay you cannot get a baby blessing Along with this policy came a strong increase in the anti-gay rhetoric from the prophets and apostles at the bi-annual general conference that all members attend. Try putting that data point on a chart that shows the suicide rate and the correlation gets eerie.
    - thedevil 8y ago
      That sounds horrible, but I'm not sure that explains the numbers. A quick internet search suggests that LGBT youth have 3x the suicide attempt rate. https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicid... Given that LGBT is maybe 4-10% of the population of the population, it's not likely to be driving such a big spike in the total numbers. I'd be interested in a more careful breakdown if anyone has it. Additionally, my interactions with Mormons suggests them (and pretty much everyone else) becoming more tolerant of LGBT, not less. However, that's anecdotes, not data.
      - coryfklein 8y ago
        I 100% agree that everyday interactions with Mormons suggests they are becoming more tolerant, and most of them struggle with the policies that are set by the church. The issue is that the uppermost echelon of church leadership is a lifetime calling, they aren't replaced until one of them dies. This leads to the prophets and apostles all being the _oldest_ members of the church, and usually the most regressive. Combine that with the fact that obedience to leadership is tantamount to even personal revelation, and you get lots of hate speech over the pulpit even while the members in the pews are actually rather tolerant. Let me run the numbers here though - if we have 100,000 youth then in 2015 there were 11 (0.011%) that committed suicide. If 4% of them are gay, that is 4,000 gay youth, and if their suicide rate is 3x the average then we'd expect 0.033% or 1-2 LGBT youth suicides. If that were the end of it, I'd agree with you that it can't explain the near doubling. But would we expect LGBT youth to commit suicide more often, less often, or the same in a community with the above "November policy" kind of standards? I'd wager that LGBT youth suicides in Utah account for closer to 30% of all youth suicides. I agree it doesn't completely explain the rise, but it seems a significant enough factor to be including in discussion.