4 ms·

Is there a preference of Telegram over Signal or vice versa?

mtgx 8y ago
Telegram doesn't use end-to-end encryption by default and likely never will. Paul Durov has been quite hostile against that feature in the past. So yes, choose Signal over Telegram. I find that instead of trying to convince friends/family to use Signal I just tell them "use Signal as your default SMS app" or install it myself for them. This tactic worked well in the Internet Explorer/Firefox and then Chrome transitions, so I don't see why it can't work again. Then whenever I will be chatting with them, it won't matter if they try to send me a SMS, as long as I use Signal, their messages will be encrypted, as they will be data messages. I wouldn't trust the default SMS app/Android Messages not to steal your SMS texts anyway, especially on Chinese phones. Also, I can't wait until the Matrix-based Riot gets its redesign: https://medium.com/@RiotChat/a-sneak-peek-at-a-whole-new-riot-im-1114df653782 https://medium.com/@RiotChat/a-sneak-peek-at-a-whole-new-rio...
- L_Rahman 8y ago
  This is good advice. I would to those following it that this advice is likely most useful if your family members are on Android devices. iOS does not allow you to change the default SMS application and if your family member is on iOS, the iMessage platform lock in is nearly impossible to break out of.
  - angry_octet 8y ago
    I've convinced quite a few acquaintances using iOS to switch, or to use both.
- diaz 8y ago
  The problem with that is assuming they will have internet connectivity always on when you want to contact them. Which I never found true even for the few people I regularly communicate over Signal. Most people turn off data and only turn it on somewhat regularly over the day to check stuff. Older people (like family) have no idea or barely know what internet is or even the button for that does and just expect communication to work like always: sms and phoning. But if people cam do the above approach good for them. I can barely convince anyone, even tech people from work or friends to install even more chat clients/services. Most are just fed up and feel tired of the whole thing.
  - angry_octet 8y ago
    Which country are you speaking of where people turn off data (to save money presumably)? Signal used to be TextSecure, and there is a fork which still supports encrypted SMS.
    - diaz 8y ago
      To save money, battery and potentially protect weird apps trying to abuse the use of internet on background. Have heard and seen so many justifications for it. Barely know people that have internet 100% of time on. Somewhere in Europe ;)
r3bl 8y ago
Telegram doesn't have end-to-end encryption by default (only in secret chats). That's all you need to understand to know that it's an inferior product in comparison to Signal.
- ethagnawl 8y ago
  Telegram's encryption algorithm is also homebrewed. https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right-now-1782557415 https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right...
- tabletopneedle 8y ago
  It's also the case you can't use Telegram's end-to-end encryption on desktop clients at all.
a012 8y ago
I think no, because I saw many voices tell they don't trust Telegram either. So maybe matrix IM is the compromise.
mscasts 8y ago
I use Telegram, mainly because the UI is extremely superior. It also allows bots and has a desktop client. Tried to use Signal, but it was buggy and slow in comparison. I also trust Telegram much more than Facebook/Whatsapp.
ryanlol 8y ago
Telegram has a history of obvious backdoors, everyone should avoid telegram. http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/ http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/ Some people may try to blame this on incompetence, but they still won't be able to explain how exactly someone might arrive at this implementation without malicious intent.
- huhtenberg 8y ago
  Would you stop posting this in every Telegram thread? I personally explained to you why this is a complete nonsense as far as conspiracy theories go [1] as did several others. Give it a rest already. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17195956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17195956
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    You call this complete nonsense, but you never explain the existence of this backdoor. If you actually stop for a minute to consider what's happening here, it's pretty difficult to dismiss telegrams choices as mere incompetence. Do you feel personally insulted by comments criticizing telegram?
    - huhtenberg 8y ago
      > you never explain the existence of this backdoor. I certainly do.
jhasse 8y ago
Telegram doesn't federate either, but at least they allow forks to connect to their main servers. And it's also available on F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.telegram.messenger/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.telegram.messenger/
chin123 8y ago
Apart from not being encrypted by default, Telegram uses its own homegrown crypto instead of a tried and tested one for its secret chat feature. That itself is a red flag.
- eps 8y ago
  Technically, Signal also uses homegrown crypto. The difference here was it was endorsed by Moxie's acquaintances from the crypto circles, followed by a very loud and aggressive disparaging campaign against Telegram led by some of these people. I've been on metzdowd list for a very long time and while cryptographers aren't the chummiest people in the slightest, there's always an underlying mutual respect. The Telegram bashing was the first time I've ever seen geniuenly vicious behavior and hate displayed towards a project that not even remotely deserve it. Almost as if the goal was just to bury the competition.
  - tuyguntn 8y ago
    upvoting, I am having same feelings towards Telegram vs Signal. Both are man made things, maybe Telegram has not made audit on their crypto yet, but whenever I see something related to IM + crypto, people praise Signal, write hate speech towards Telegram, as if were people are waiting HN to have a mention of Telegram and writing some bad words about it.
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    You conveniently left out the fact that Telegram has a history of actual backdoors http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/ http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/
    - eps 8y ago
      This is completely unrelated to what I said.
      - ryanlol 8y ago
        >The difference here was it was endorsed by Moxie's acquaintances from the crypto circles You suggest that this is the major difference between Signal and Telegram, but that's dishonest at best.
therealmarv 8y ago
Telegram is (with default settings) a cloud service where your messages are without time limits stored. Telegram cannot be compared to Signal/WhatsApp because they work in totally different ways (temporary encrypted e2e storing vs. encrypted cloud storing with keys in various countries).

mtgx 8y ago

Telegram doesn't use end-to-end encryption by default and likely never will. Paul Durov has been quite hostile against that feature in the past. So yes, choose Signal over Telegram. I find that instead of trying to convince friends/family to use Signal I just tell them "use Signal as your default SMS app" or install it myself for them. This tactic worked well in the Internet Explorer/Firefox and then Chrome transitions, so I don't see why it can't work again. Then whenever I will be chatting with them, it won't matter if they try to send me a SMS, as long as I use Signal, their messages will be encrypted, as they will be data messages. I wouldn't trust the default SMS app/Android Messages not to steal your SMS texts anyway, especially on Chinese phones. Also, I can't wait until the Matrix-based Riot gets its redesign: https://medium.com/@RiotChat/a-sneak-peek-at-a-whole-new-riot-im-1114df653782 https://medium.com/@RiotChat/a-sneak-peek-at-a-whole-new-rio...

L_Rahman 8y ago
This is good advice. I would to those following it that this advice is likely most useful if your family members are on Android devices. iOS does not allow you to change the default SMS application and if your family member is on iOS, the iMessage platform lock in is nearly impossible to break out of.
- angry_octet 8y ago
  I've convinced quite a few acquaintances using iOS to switch, or to use both.
diaz 8y ago
The problem with that is assuming they will have internet connectivity always on when you want to contact them. Which I never found true even for the few people I regularly communicate over Signal. Most people turn off data and only turn it on somewhat regularly over the day to check stuff. Older people (like family) have no idea or barely know what internet is or even the button for that does and just expect communication to work like always: sms and phoning. But if people cam do the above approach good for them. I can barely convince anyone, even tech people from work or friends to install even more chat clients/services. Most are just fed up and feel tired of the whole thing.
- angry_octet 8y ago
  Which country are you speaking of where people turn off data (to save money presumably)? Signal used to be TextSecure, and there is a fork which still supports encrypted SMS.
  - diaz 8y ago
    To save money, battery and potentially protect weird apps trying to abuse the use of internet on background. Have heard and seen so many justifications for it. Barely know people that have internet 100% of time on. Somewhere in Europe ;)

r3bl 8y ago

Telegram doesn't have end-to-end encryption by default (only in secret chats). That's all you need to understand to know that it's an inferior product in comparison to Signal.

ethagnawl 8y ago
Telegram's encryption algorithm is also homebrewed. https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right-now-1782557415 https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right...
tabletopneedle 8y ago
It's also the case you can't use Telegram's end-to-end encryption on desktop clients at all.

a012 8y ago

I think no, because I saw many voices tell they don't trust Telegram either. So maybe matrix IM is the compromise.

mscasts 8y ago

I use Telegram, mainly because the UI is extremely superior. It also allows bots and has a desktop client. Tried to use Signal, but it was buggy and slow in comparison. I also trust Telegram much more than Facebook/Whatsapp.

ryanlol 8y ago

Telegram has a history of obvious backdoors, everyone should avoid telegram. http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/ http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/ Some people may try to blame this on incompetence, but they still won't be able to explain how exactly someone might arrive at this implementation without malicious intent.

huhtenberg 8y ago
Would you stop posting this in every Telegram thread? I personally explained to you why this is a complete nonsense as far as conspiracy theories go [1] as did several others. Give it a rest already. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17195956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17195956
- ryanlol 8y ago
  You call this complete nonsense, but you never explain the existence of this backdoor. If you actually stop for a minute to consider what's happening here, it's pretty difficult to dismiss telegrams choices as mere incompetence. Do you feel personally insulted by comments criticizing telegram?
  - huhtenberg 8y ago
    > you never explain the existence of this backdoor. I certainly do.

jhasse 8y ago

Telegram doesn't federate either, but at least they allow forks to connect to their main servers. And it's also available on F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.telegram.messenger/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.telegram.messenger/

chin123 8y ago

Apart from not being encrypted by default, Telegram uses its own homegrown crypto instead of a tried and tested one for its secret chat feature. That itself is a red flag.

eps 8y ago
Technically, Signal also uses homegrown crypto. The difference here was it was endorsed by Moxie's acquaintances from the crypto circles, followed by a very loud and aggressive disparaging campaign against Telegram led by some of these people. I've been on metzdowd list for a very long time and while cryptographers aren't the chummiest people in the slightest, there's always an underlying mutual respect. The Telegram bashing was the first time I've ever seen geniuenly vicious behavior and hate displayed towards a project that not even remotely deserve it. Almost as if the goal was just to bury the competition.
- tuyguntn 8y ago
  upvoting, I am having same feelings towards Telegram vs Signal. Both are man made things, maybe Telegram has not made audit on their crypto yet, but whenever I see something related to IM + crypto, people praise Signal, write hate speech towards Telegram, as if were people are waiting HN to have a mention of Telegram and writing some bad words about it.
- ryanlol 8y ago
  You conveniently left out the fact that Telegram has a history of actual backdoors http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/ http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/
  - eps 8y ago
    This is completely unrelated to what I said.
    - ryanlol 8y ago
      >The difference here was it was endorsed by Moxie's acquaintances from the crypto circles You suggest that this is the major difference between Signal and Telegram, but that's dishonest at best.

therealmarv 8y ago

Telegram is (with default settings) a cloud service where your messages are without time limits stored. Telegram cannot be compared to Signal/WhatsApp because they work in totally different ways (temporary encrypted e2e storing vs. encrypted cloud storing with keys in various countries).