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I won’t disagree that Mormons still have a ways to go regarding relations with the LGBT community, but if you have follow the Mormon church at all you’ve seen l

I won’t disagree that Mormons still have a ways to go regarding relations with the LGBT community, but if you have follow the Mormon church at all you’ve seen lots of progress in the last 10 years which continues to be made. As for the suicide rate, you are making very careless and dangerous assumptions. Yes, it’s higher than most other areas. The reason for why is still very much unknown, and could be attributed in part to a wide variety of factors, ranging anywhere from demographics to the high altitude. Assuming it’s high because Mormons are awful people is baseless and clearly an instance of someone who has looking to confirm their biases. If you are going to bring data into the conversation you should try and be more empirically minded about it.

saosebastiao 8y ago
Handwavy dismissals from Mormons about the high suicide rate all have one thing in common: they may explain higher than average baselibe levels, but they don't explain the growth. It is certainly plausible, and as empirical understandings improve, Mormonism is certainly being honed in on as a significant factor. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286
- thedevil 8y ago
  From the same publication, teen suicide rates are rising across the US: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girls_us_59848b64e4b0cb15b1be13f4 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girl...
  - saosebastiao 8y ago
    And while the rate of child and teen suicide has risen by 23.5 percent nationally during the years covered by the study, it "more than doubled" (a 136 percent rise) in Utah, according to researchers from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cdc-probes-troubling-rise-in-suicide-among-utah-teens https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cd...
    - thedevil 8y ago
      So some possible hypotheses (in what I would consider most to least plausible): 1) Whatever causes the higher overall rates in Utah (altitude and/or other variables) that interacts in a non-linear way with whatever is causing the national increase. 2) Whatever factor that is driving the national increase is more influential in Utah for whatever reason. (e.g. maybe social networks are more harmful to more-judgmental Mormon communities) 3) There is some recent change in Mormon culture that has driven a change in teen suicide rates. 4) Mormon culture has caused a change in suicide rates despite not changing. Do you have any support that would make (3) or (4) sound more reasonable? Or do you have another hypothesis?
      - coryfklein 8y ago
        One particularly strong datum in favor of 3/4 is the "November policy". On November 5th 2015 the church released a new policy: * Claimed it is from God * If you are gay then you are declared apostate and excommunicated (the strongest punishment that can be applied by the church, with extreme social repercussions) * If your parents are gay, you're not allowed to be baptized at age 8 like other children, even given parent permission. Instead you must wait until age 21 and submit a signed affidavit disavowing your parents' relationship * If your parents are gay you cannot get a baby blessing Along with this policy came a strong increase in the anti-gay rhetoric from the prophets and apostles at the bi-annual general conference that all members attend. Try putting that data point on a chart that shows the suicide rate and the correlation gets eerie.
        thedevil 8y ago
        That sounds horrible, but I'm not sure that explains the numbers. A quick internet search suggests that LGBT youth have 3x the suicide attempt rate. https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicid... Given that LGBT is maybe 4-10% of the population of the population, it's not likely to be driving such a big spike in the total numbers. I'd be interested in a more careful breakdown if anyone has it. Additionally, my interactions with Mormons suggests them (and pretty much everyone else) becoming more tolerant of LGBT, not less. However, that's anecdotes, not data.
tallanvor 8y ago
The religion of suicide victims and their parents aren't tracked officially, but over 50% of the population of Utah identify as Mormon. I am perfectly willing to accept that more rural areas tend to have higher suicide rates, and that is not necessarily going to be correlated with religion, but at the same time, 1/3 of the population lives in the SLC metro area, which should be a moderating influence on the state's suicide rate if this is the primary cause. The only other statistic I know of regarding Utah that is an outlier over the US in general is the percentage of individuals who identify as Mormon. As such, a hypothesis that the higher adolescent suicide rate has something to do with religion is perfectly valid, although still only a hypothesis.

saosebastiao 8y ago

Handwavy dismissals from Mormons about the high suicide rate all have one thing in common: they may explain higher than average baselibe levels, but they don't explain the growth. It is certainly plausible, and as empirical understandings improve, Mormonism is certainly being honed in on as a significant factor. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286

thedevil 8y ago
From the same publication, teen suicide rates are rising across the US: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girls_us_59848b64e4b0cb15b1be13f4 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girl...
- saosebastiao 8y ago
  And while the rate of child and teen suicide has risen by 23.5 percent nationally during the years covered by the study, it "more than doubled" (a 136 percent rise) in Utah, according to researchers from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cdc-probes-troubling-rise-in-suicide-among-utah-teens https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cd...
  - thedevil 8y ago
    So some possible hypotheses (in what I would consider most to least plausible): 1) Whatever causes the higher overall rates in Utah (altitude and/or other variables) that interacts in a non-linear way with whatever is causing the national increase. 2) Whatever factor that is driving the national increase is more influential in Utah for whatever reason. (e.g. maybe social networks are more harmful to more-judgmental Mormon communities) 3) There is some recent change in Mormon culture that has driven a change in teen suicide rates. 4) Mormon culture has caused a change in suicide rates despite not changing. Do you have any support that would make (3) or (4) sound more reasonable? Or do you have another hypothesis?
    - coryfklein 8y ago
      One particularly strong datum in favor of 3/4 is the "November policy". On November 5th 2015 the church released a new policy: * Claimed it is from God * If you are gay then you are declared apostate and excommunicated (the strongest punishment that can be applied by the church, with extreme social repercussions) * If your parents are gay, you're not allowed to be baptized at age 8 like other children, even given parent permission. Instead you must wait until age 21 and submit a signed affidavit disavowing your parents' relationship * If your parents are gay you cannot get a baby blessing Along with this policy came a strong increase in the anti-gay rhetoric from the prophets and apostles at the bi-annual general conference that all members attend. Try putting that data point on a chart that shows the suicide rate and the correlation gets eerie.
      - thedevil 8y ago
        That sounds horrible, but I'm not sure that explains the numbers. A quick internet search suggests that LGBT youth have 3x the suicide attempt rate. https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicid... Given that LGBT is maybe 4-10% of the population of the population, it's not likely to be driving such a big spike in the total numbers. I'd be interested in a more careful breakdown if anyone has it. Additionally, my interactions with Mormons suggests them (and pretty much everyone else) becoming more tolerant of LGBT, not less. However, that's anecdotes, not data.

tallanvor 8y ago

The religion of suicide victims and their parents aren't tracked officially, but over 50% of the population of Utah identify as Mormon. I am perfectly willing to accept that more rural areas tend to have higher suicide rates, and that is not necessarily going to be correlated with religion, but at the same time, 1/3 of the population lives in the SLC metro area, which should be a moderating influence on the state's suicide rate if this is the primary cause. The only other statistic I know of regarding Utah that is an outlier over the US in general is the percentage of individuals who identify as Mormon. As such, a hypothesis that the higher adolescent suicide rate has something to do with religion is perfectly valid, although still only a hypothesis.