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>At Riot, employees are encouraged to play League before/after work, or during lunch. My very first week at the Dublin office, I heard shouting from individuals

>At Riot, employees are encouraged to play League before/after work, or during lunch. My very first week at the Dublin office, I heard shouting from individuals playing together, calling each other “fggots” repeatedly. I was unnerved, but it was my first week and I didn’t know if this was a common occurrence. I didn’t say anything at that time. Eventually, the language would escalate to “ngger”. No one flinched, and I realized it was considered the norm. Nearly the same thing happened my first day of meetings at the Riot LA office, where two men were loudly calling each other “c*cksuckers” right outside the office of the CEOs. That's gaming culture, plain and simple. Is it a new necessity to change gaming culture to pander to people who've never played games? I believe this is being done for the sole reason of extracting more money by tapping into markets that weren't being exploited before. Case in point, woman-friendly games like Fortnite or Overwatch. This is not a problem by itself, but it's sad that some companies are pushing this narrative to make it look like they care about social issues and gain the favour of those who do, when they just want more money.

vaeix 8y ago
Your gaming culture is not my gaming culture. You can say nasty things to each other without being racist or homophobic, especially at a place of work.
- unstableph 8y ago
  Of course, I agree. As I said there's this new "egalitarian and respectful and social justice and all of that" culture that is being created by the games I mentioned and many others, but traditional online games will probably always follow the "classic" gaming culture. "A place of work", that's another matter; I agree it's unprofessional. I'm talking purely about videogames and those who play them at home.
  - mnem 8y ago
    Speaking as a dinosaur, that is not classic gaming culture. Anecdotally that highly anatagonistic language became far more the norm in my circle after gamers from the U.S. (and vocal communication) became common. I’ve always unfairly made the assumption that it was a reflection of culture when growing up in the U.S. It is disappointing that it is generally accepted as the norm worldwide now.
  - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
    > I agree it's unprofessional No, professionalism is something else. Not harassing people is basic human decency.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    > "A place of work", that's another matter; I agree it's unprofessional. I'm talking purely about videogames and those who play them at home. At a gaming company where people play the game they make at work, what happens to this boundary?
- Eochei5h 8y ago
  Most nasty things are rooted in group stereotypes, historic conflicts and the like. If it weren't divisive in some way it wouldn't be used as insult.
irb 8y ago
If use of racist and homophobic slurs is 'gaming culture' then there is problem with gaming culture. I don't really see how that kind of language is something that needs protecting.
- shard972 8y ago
  I think there is something wrong with a culture that feels the need to supress what is effectively amateur comedy going on within small groups. Targeted harassment sure, that's not something to just blindly protect but as a homosexual, i see more harm in trying to police jimmy calling his friends faggots playing CoD than I see in allowing people to speak their minds. Until someone can posit a great explanation for why its funny for me to call my friends faggots when they have kids and I don't and why that is in the end bad for society as a whole, I don't buy the argument we need to be policing speech along these lines.
  - throwaway-hn123 8y ago
    > i see more harm in trying to police jimmy calling his friends faggots playing CoD than I see in allowing people to speak their minds. Who exactly is trying to stop Jimmy? This is about behaviour AT WORK. Jesus wept, how are some people so utterly dumb?
  - exelius 8y ago
    It’s more that you shouldn’t use that word in the first place — it doesn’t matter if your friends are gay or not; the fact it’s a hateful insult that tells gay men they are lesser is enough. Imagine the young little gay kid who hears “f\t” screamed 20 times an hour — how will that make him feel for the rest of his life? Are you just cementing in his head that it’s wrong to be gay? I hate to say it, but the days of absolute freedom of speech may be over. Everything these days is done through a commercial platform, and we’re now saying those platforms have editorial responsibility to monitor that speech (outside of any government mandate so it doesn’t fall afoul of 1st amendment).
    - madengr 8y ago
antoineMoPa 8y ago
That's gaming culture to have racist and homophobic speech? There is no valid reason for this. I don't get why people think this is justified and acceptable.
- Eochei5h 8y ago
  > There is no valid reason for this. Provoking an opponent into irrational behavior seems like a valid game strategy. In other words the language is not necessarily used for its face content but for its psychological effects.
rmc 8y ago
It's a workplace, not your personal video game club.
rhencke 8y ago
Maybe that's a subset of 'gaming culture' you've experienced. But, I've played in many, many large online areas across a diverse set of games, socialized in many gaming forums online and, simply put, this would not be acceptable behavior at all and would quickly get people tossed out. It feels like you are saying 'well, boys will be boys', and that's honestly just a way to rationalize unacceptable behavior by refusing to taken ownership of it.
awild 8y ago
This is not gaming culture at all, and even if it were it's still extremely problematic. Especially as Riot is not a LAN Cafe, but a company. Companies have codes of conduct and people can be reprimanded or let go for not following them inside the companies offices, it's that simple. Additionally this will remain gaming culture as long as noone takes an active stance of fighting against it.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Uberphallus 8y ago
I agree with you. And the fact that this was posted on Tumblr including a Content Warning only adds icing to this ironic cake. To those who disagree, lemme put it this way: it's not only videogame culture, it is plain old trash talk. Boxing, basketball, soccer, UFC, tennis, you name it, you have it in most competitive sports. It shocks pretty much anyone who hasn't taken part in a competitive sport/e-sport community before, and find it backwards, but from my perspective, they haven't been socialized in that environment. It's not LGBT-phobic, though many insults come off as that because they've traditionally been insults, that's all. If the FIBA or FIFA start having mixed gender leagues, the same would happen: women offended when they stopped being oblivious about how men behave in these environments. Actually even in soccer, many women are turned off when they find out female players spend a significant part of the time calling each other b/c* (in some amateur UK leagues at least). This is just happening with videogames because it happens to be one of the few competitive fields where men and women's ability differs the least, having them playing together more often than most of all other disciplines.
- pmyteh 8y ago
  It's absolutely LGBT-phobic. Do you know how many out gay professional footballers there are in the UK? Zero. Because the atmosphere around sexuality in professional football is sufficiently toxic that very few people are willing to come out before they retire. These things can change. Thirty years ago black players had bananas thrown at them on the pitch. After a lot of work, racism is now rare at football grounds, and generally stamped on when it appears. We could do the same with anti-gay slurs too, if we cared enough.
  - Uberphallus 8y ago
    Justin Fashanu [0] is a counter example. He came out in 1991(!). I don't see how it's a problem now when it wasn't back then. That said, it's the fandom that's rotten, not the players and the industry itself. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu
    - 8y ago

vaeix 8y ago

Your gaming culture is not my gaming culture. You can say nasty things to each other without being racist or homophobic, especially at a place of work.

unstableph 8y ago
Of course, I agree. As I said there's this new "egalitarian and respectful and social justice and all of that" culture that is being created by the games I mentioned and many others, but traditional online games will probably always follow the "classic" gaming culture. "A place of work", that's another matter; I agree it's unprofessional. I'm talking purely about videogames and those who play them at home.
- mnem 8y ago
  Speaking as a dinosaur, that is not classic gaming culture. Anecdotally that highly anatagonistic language became far more the norm in my circle after gamers from the U.S. (and vocal communication) became common. I’ve always unfairly made the assumption that it was a reflection of culture when growing up in the U.S. It is disappointing that it is generally accepted as the norm worldwide now.
- eeZah7Ux 8y ago
  > I agree it's unprofessional No, professionalism is something else. Not harassing people is basic human decency.
- pjc50 8y ago
  > "A place of work", that's another matter; I agree it's unprofessional. I'm talking purely about videogames and those who play them at home. At a gaming company where people play the game they make at work, what happens to this boundary?
Eochei5h 8y ago
Most nasty things are rooted in group stereotypes, historic conflicts and the like. If it weren't divisive in some way it wouldn't be used as insult.

irb 8y ago

If use of racist and homophobic slurs is 'gaming culture' then there is problem with gaming culture. I don't really see how that kind of language is something that needs protecting.

shard972 8y ago
I think there is something wrong with a culture that feels the need to supress what is effectively amateur comedy going on within small groups. Targeted harassment sure, that's not something to just blindly protect but as a homosexual, i see more harm in trying to police jimmy calling his friends faggots playing CoD than I see in allowing people to speak their minds. Until someone can posit a great explanation for why its funny for me to call my friends faggots when they have kids and I don't and why that is in the end bad for society as a whole, I don't buy the argument we need to be policing speech along these lines.
- throwaway-hn123 8y ago
  > i see more harm in trying to police jimmy calling his friends faggots playing CoD than I see in allowing people to speak their minds. Who exactly is trying to stop Jimmy? This is about behaviour AT WORK. Jesus wept, how are some people so utterly dumb?
- exelius 8y ago
  It’s more that you shouldn’t use that word in the first place — it doesn’t matter if your friends are gay or not; the fact it’s a hateful insult that tells gay men they are lesser is enough. Imagine the young little gay kid who hears “f\t” screamed 20 times an hour — how will that make him feel for the rest of his life? Are you just cementing in his head that it’s wrong to be gay? I hate to say it, but the days of absolute freedom of speech may be over. Everything these days is done through a commercial platform, and we’re now saying those platforms have editorial responsibility to monitor that speech (outside of any government mandate so it doesn’t fall afoul of 1st amendment).
  - madengr 8y ago

antoineMoPa 8y ago

That's gaming culture to have racist and homophobic speech? There is no valid reason for this. I don't get why people think this is justified and acceptable.

Eochei5h 8y ago
> There is no valid reason for this. Provoking an opponent into irrational behavior seems like a valid game strategy. In other words the language is not necessarily used for its face content but for its psychological effects.

rmc 8y ago

It's a workplace, not your personal video game club.

rhencke 8y ago

Maybe that's a subset of 'gaming culture' you've experienced. But, I've played in many, many large online areas across a diverse set of games, socialized in many gaming forums online and, simply put, this would not be acceptable behavior at all and would quickly get people tossed out. It feels like you are saying 'well, boys will be boys', and that's honestly just a way to rationalize unacceptable behavior by refusing to taken ownership of it.

awild 8y ago

This is not gaming culture at all, and even if it were it's still extremely problematic. Especially as Riot is not a LAN Cafe, but a company. Companies have codes of conduct and people can be reprimanded or let go for not following them inside the companies offices, it's that simple. Additionally this will remain gaming culture as long as noone takes an active stance of fighting against it.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Uberphallus 8y ago

I agree with you. And the fact that this was posted on Tumblr including a Content Warning only adds icing to this ironic cake. To those who disagree, lemme put it this way: it's not only videogame culture, it is plain old trash talk. Boxing, basketball, soccer, UFC, tennis, you name it, you have it in most competitive sports. It shocks pretty much anyone who hasn't taken part in a competitive sport/e-sport community before, and find it backwards, but from my perspective, they haven't been socialized in that environment. It's not LGBT-phobic, though many insults come off as that because they've traditionally been insults, that's all. If the FIBA or FIFA start having mixed gender leagues, the same would happen: women offended when they stopped being oblivious about how men behave in these environments. Actually even in soccer, many women are turned off when they find out female players spend a significant part of the time calling each other b/c* (in some amateur UK leagues at least). This is just happening with videogames because it happens to be one of the few competitive fields where men and women's ability differs the least, having them playing together more often than most of all other disciplines.

pmyteh 8y ago
It's absolutely LGBT-phobic. Do you know how many out gay professional footballers there are in the UK? Zero. Because the atmosphere around sexuality in professional football is sufficiently toxic that very few people are willing to come out before they retire. These things can change. Thirty years ago black players had bananas thrown at them on the pitch. After a lot of work, racism is now rare at football grounds, and generally stamped on when it appears. We could do the same with anti-gay slurs too, if we cared enough.
- Uberphallus 8y ago
  Justin Fashanu [0] is a counter example. He came out in 1991(!). I don't see how it's a problem now when it wasn't back then. That said, it's the fandom that's rotten, not the players and the industry itself. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu
  - 8y ago