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> If you allow people access to their own account data via an API then they will seek out software to help them access it Is that a bad thing? How about we let

> If you allow people access to their own account data via an API then they will seek out software to help them access it Is that a bad thing? How about we let people do whatever they want with their data? Not to mention the lack of APIs doesn’t stop this - there is an entire industry built on top of scraping bank’s web UIs. Companies like TrueLayer will happily take online banking credentials and provide you with an API, scraping the bank’s UI behind the scenes. A lot of financial aggregator apps use it for ages now.

Nursie 8y ago
> Is that a bad thing? Of course not. But it makes sense to ensure that the vendors of these products are FCA approved. > How about we let people do whatever they want with their data? For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. > there is an entire industry built on top of scraping bank’s web UIs. There is, and now you can have a choice - a well functioning, secure ecosystem with oversight, or giving your login credentials to some third party to abuse as they see fit.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  > For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. In that case, let's get rid of cash, cards, and frankly everything, because otherwise scammers will take advantage.
  - Nursie 8y ago
    Allowing anyone to use any software to access their banking data would allow them unprecedented abilities to automate, and attack. I'm sorry if you don't feel that's adequate. Perhaps you should have a conversation with one of the many people that object to OpenBanking because it's far too permissive and they don't want the possibility of any third party getting their banking data, ever, oversight or not.
    - Rjevski 8y ago
      > Allowing anyone to use any software to access their banking data would allow them unprecedented abilities to automate, and attack. In certain countries (Germany, etc) there are actually open protocols (FinTS/HBCI, etc) that banks conform to and allow any software to gain access to the accounts provided the proper credentials are supplied, and it doesn't look like the world has melted down.
      - Nursie 8y ago
        AFAICT FinTS wasn't ever massively widely supported and has never been fully implemented, there seems to be little information about it at all. What info I can find appears in discussions related to PSD2, and one presumes there are reasons the EU didn't pick up that model but issued what it did. One of the projects using these protocols seems to be openbankproject.com, but they have their apps go through approvals as well, using OAuth flows in a similar way to OpenBanking in the UK. Eh. I don't really see how, even from your perspective, you can be against PSD and Open Banking - it forces all banks in the EU to open up more than the vast majority do now.
        Rjevski 8y ago
        To be fair, I am not against open banking - it’s definitely a step in the right direction. But I just want people to know that it’s not a silver bullet and it’s got many shortcomings. It’s definitely not the solution to the lack of bank’s APIs, and more needs to be done.

Nursie 8y ago

> Is that a bad thing? Of course not. But it makes sense to ensure that the vendors of these products are FCA approved. > How about we let people do whatever they want with their data? For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. > there is an entire industry built on top of scraping bank’s web UIs. There is, and now you can have a choice - a well functioning, secure ecosystem with oversight, or giving your login credentials to some third party to abuse as they see fit.

Rjevski 8y ago
> For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. In that case, let's get rid of cash, cards, and frankly everything, because otherwise scammers will take advantage.
- Nursie 8y ago
  Allowing anyone to use any software to access their banking data would allow them unprecedented abilities to automate, and attack. I'm sorry if you don't feel that's adequate. Perhaps you should have a conversation with one of the many people that object to OpenBanking because it's far too permissive and they don't want the possibility of any third party getting their banking data, ever, oversight or not.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    > Allowing anyone to use any software to access their banking data would allow them unprecedented abilities to automate, and attack. In certain countries (Germany, etc) there are actually open protocols (FinTS/HBCI, etc) that banks conform to and allow any software to gain access to the accounts provided the proper credentials are supplied, and it doesn't look like the world has melted down.
    - Nursie 8y ago
      AFAICT FinTS wasn't ever massively widely supported and has never been fully implemented, there seems to be little information about it at all. What info I can find appears in discussions related to PSD2, and one presumes there are reasons the EU didn't pick up that model but issued what it did. One of the projects using these protocols seems to be openbankproject.com, but they have their apps go through approvals as well, using OAuth flows in a similar way to OpenBanking in the UK. Eh. I don't really see how, even from your perspective, you can be against PSD and Open Banking - it forces all banks in the EU to open up more than the vast majority do now.
      - Rjevski 8y ago
        To be fair, I am not against open banking - it’s definitely a step in the right direction. But I just want people to know that it’s not a silver bullet and it’s got many shortcomings. It’s definitely not the solution to the lack of bank’s APIs, and more needs to be done.