6 ms·

Oracle to charge for Java from Jan 2019

51 points by Pyppe 8y ago

vpribish 8y ago
right from the weasel's mouth: https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
dynjo 8y ago
Cached version https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VvTCsb0dnUYJ:https://www.itassetmanagement.net/2018/05/01/oracle-to-charge-for-java-from-jan-2019/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=th&client=safari https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VvTCsb...
sudhirj 8y ago
Isn't this heavily misleading? This still seems like the charges for continuing to use old versions of Java <= 8. The article doesn't confirm or deny that staying on the latest version remains free.
- theoctopus 8y ago
  This is some _incredible_ clickbait. The latest JRE and JDK will continue to be free. What Oracle are charging for is continued Java 8 support.
  - dmix 8y ago
    What type of usage does Java 8 vs 9+ have in the real enterprise world? Isn't that still a significant amount of companies and applications?
    - kamaal 8y ago
      A lot. For all practical purposes, it very hard to get projects to move to big version numbers in large enterprises. Its not as simple as just recompiling code. Something like the entire ecosystem has to move, you will have plenty of compatibility problems, code breakage and catch-22 situations. This is not good news for Java. Also a lot of 'Architects' will be forced to think if they will be made to pay for Java later. Hence should they use something else to build their latest projects?
      - BjoernKW 8y ago
        Moving to something else entirely is even more costly than just moving to the next major version. The EOL for JDK 8 has been known for quite some time now. Architects who haven’t taken that into account yet have been negligent regardless of Oracle charging for future updates or not. Migrations almost always require quite some effort but there was plenty of time to prepare in this case.
        kamaal 8y ago
        Im not talking about the existing projects. Either way, if it comes to a point where you have to pay for something like using a programming language. Pay whatever you have to now. But start moving to something other tech over time. And yeah, don't start new projects in Java.
        BjoernKW 8y ago
        You don’t have to pay for using Java. You have to pay for continued support for a specific Java version. You can even continue using JDK 8 for free indefinitely. Just don’t expect any future updates from Oracle, security or otherwise. If you absolutely have to use JDK 8 another option is OpenJDK, which unlike Oracle’s JDK probably will continue receiving updates even for version 8. I also don’t see why one shouldn’t use Java for new projects. With its huge ecosystem and modern toolsets such as Spring Boot Java is a highly viable option for developing new applications.
yetihehe 8y ago
Oracle will charge for support of Java 8, not for all Java versions.
cwyers 8y ago
> Oracle have announced that, “after January 2019”, Java SE 8 public updates will not be available for “business, commercial or production use” without a commercial license. This is blogspam and FUD. Java SE 8 will be past EOL at that point. Oracle has announced no intent to charge for updates to Java SE 11, which should be the current release, at that point.
- Annatar 8y ago
  What a shame. Just when I got my hopes up.
DonHopkins 8y ago
After all those years of endlessly arguing back and forth about which programming language is the best, the poor Java evangelists have had the blocks knocked out from underneath them, because now you can instantly counter any number of technical pro-Java arguments and win the argument in one word, by simply be saying the name "Oracle", and sadly shaking your head in pity.
- repsilat 8y ago
  And what a turnaround for the CLR. People used to say, "Sure, C# is a better Java, but Microsoft and closed-source etc..." Or, "Sure F# looks cool, pity about..." Microsoft's reputation isn't what Sun's was, but it's miles better than it was under Ballmer and light-years ahead of Oracle's. Looks like the bulk of .NET code is released under permissive licenses, too (?) I don't know how much "hacker goodwill" buys you when you make old-people tech, but Java has definitely lost ground to its main competitor. Maybe their recent uptick in language development velocity will help things.
  - DonHopkins 8y ago
    You need "hacker goodwill" to hire and retain great people like James Gosling and Anders Hejlsberg. Oracle doesn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of ever hiring anyone who can hold a candle to them.
    - kamaal 8y ago
      Beyond that, its also reasonable for them to charge for Java. Java is huge, the ecosystem, the libraries and the software built using it. Its like you have to spend money to build a technology which every one is using to build awesome things, and you have to not only continue investing in it, but give it away for free. Sun spent like millions of dollars on Java, without earning a penny in return. At some point in time you are a company and have to make profits. Sending all that big money down the drain for others benefits, and no profits for yourself is something no company will do.
- watt 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
eripaha 8y ago
The long waited death of Java is finally here
Nursie 8y ago
OK, but from what I can tell this isn't a fee for using java in a commercial setting, it's a fee for access to continued support/patching of Java 8. Java 9 is out. Java 10 is out. I can see why oracle might want to cut down their support costs and retire their older versions more quickly. However this will blow up in their faces if a lot of software gets exploited due to unpatched vulnerabilities.
ShardPhoenix 8y ago
Note: this applies to new updates to Java 8, as a result of the upcoming Java 11 taking over as the LTS version. Oracle is not charging for Java in general. As a result the headline and article come across as a bit FUDdy to me.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
_Codemonkeyism 8y ago
Poor journalism. 1. It's about EOL SE 8 2. "software running Java SE 8" - the article needs to be clear about Oracle Java, and Open JDK and others like Azul
dmix 8y ago
What is a "named user plus"?
BjoernKW 8y ago
That headline’s sensationalist and misleading. They’re going to charge for continued JDK 8 updates. JDK (and JRE) 11 will be the latest version by then. Only companies which need or want to stay on the previous version will have to pay.
jarym 8y ago
I don’t see anything wrong with charging commercial users for support of an old product. I’m no fan of Oracle of their sales practices but the title is very misleading by omission
nimchimpsky 8y ago
Does anyone use these : "Java SE Advanced Desktop", "Java SE Advanced", "Java SE Suite" ? I'd never heard of them until this announcement. The jdk, everything we develop and run on, is unaffected ?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
Even though the clickbait title is false, I wouldn't be surprised if Oracle at some point decided it makes sense to kill Java by "monetizing" current releases it in this way.
bArray 8y ago
I'm not sure what the big deal is, they are charging for older version support. Not only this, I've been using and would recommend people switch to openjdk.
singularity2001 8y ago
blogspam / FUD or not, Kotlin is the beautiful future
RickJWagner 8y ago
This changes things. For one, Red Hat is now offering OpenJDK support for Windows.

51 points by Pyppe 8y ago

right from the weasel's mouth: https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

dynjo 8y ago

Cached version https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VvTCsb0dnUYJ:https://www.itassetmanagement.net/2018/05/01/oracle-to-charge-for-java-from-jan-2019/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=th&client=safari https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VvTCsb...

sudhirj 8y ago

Isn't this heavily misleading? This still seems like the charges for continuing to use old versions of Java <= 8. The article doesn't confirm or deny that staying on the latest version remains free.

theoctopus 8y ago
This is some _incredible_ clickbait. The latest JRE and JDK will continue to be free. What Oracle are charging for is continued Java 8 support.
- dmix 8y ago
  What type of usage does Java 8 vs 9+ have in the real enterprise world? Isn't that still a significant amount of companies and applications?
  - kamaal 8y ago
    A lot. For all practical purposes, it very hard to get projects to move to big version numbers in large enterprises. Its not as simple as just recompiling code. Something like the entire ecosystem has to move, you will have plenty of compatibility problems, code breakage and catch-22 situations. This is not good news for Java. Also a lot of 'Architects' will be forced to think if they will be made to pay for Java later. Hence should they use something else to build their latest projects?
    - BjoernKW 8y ago
      Moving to something else entirely is even more costly than just moving to the next major version. The EOL for JDK 8 has been known for quite some time now. Architects who haven’t taken that into account yet have been negligent regardless of Oracle charging for future updates or not. Migrations almost always require quite some effort but there was plenty of time to prepare in this case.
      - kamaal 8y ago
        Im not talking about the existing projects. Either way, if it comes to a point where you have to pay for something like using a programming language. Pay whatever you have to now. But start moving to something other tech over time. And yeah, don't start new projects in Java.
        BjoernKW 8y ago
        You don’t have to pay for using Java. You have to pay for continued support for a specific Java version. You can even continue using JDK 8 for free indefinitely. Just don’t expect any future updates from Oracle, security or otherwise. If you absolutely have to use JDK 8 another option is OpenJDK, which unlike Oracle’s JDK probably will continue receiving updates even for version 8. I also don’t see why one shouldn’t use Java for new projects. With its huge ecosystem and modern toolsets such as Spring Boot Java is a highly viable option for developing new applications.

yetihehe 8y ago

Oracle will charge for support of Java 8, not for all Java versions.

cwyers 8y ago

> Oracle have announced that, “after January 2019”, Java SE 8 public updates will not be available for “business, commercial or production use” without a commercial license. This is blogspam and FUD. Java SE 8 will be past EOL at that point. Oracle has announced no intent to charge for updates to Java SE 11, which should be the current release, at that point.

Annatar 8y ago
What a shame. Just when I got my hopes up.

DonHopkins 8y ago

After all those years of endlessly arguing back and forth about which programming language is the best, the poor Java evangelists have had the blocks knocked out from underneath them, because now you can instantly counter any number of technical pro-Java arguments and win the argument in one word, by simply be saying the name "Oracle", and sadly shaking your head in pity.

repsilat 8y ago
And what a turnaround for the CLR. People used to say, "Sure, C# is a better Java, but Microsoft and closed-source etc..." Or, "Sure F# looks cool, pity about..." Microsoft's reputation isn't what Sun's was, but it's miles better than it was under Ballmer and light-years ahead of Oracle's. Looks like the bulk of .NET code is released under permissive licenses, too (?) I don't know how much "hacker goodwill" buys you when you make old-people tech, but Java has definitely lost ground to its main competitor. Maybe their recent uptick in language development velocity will help things.
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  You need "hacker goodwill" to hire and retain great people like James Gosling and Anders Hejlsberg. Oracle doesn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of ever hiring anyone who can hold a candle to them.
  - kamaal 8y ago
    Beyond that, its also reasonable for them to charge for Java. Java is huge, the ecosystem, the libraries and the software built using it. Its like you have to spend money to build a technology which every one is using to build awesome things, and you have to not only continue investing in it, but give it away for free. Sun spent like millions of dollars on Java, without earning a penny in return. At some point in time you are a company and have to make profits. Sending all that big money down the drain for others benefits, and no profits for yourself is something no company will do.
watt 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

eripaha 8y ago

The long waited death of Java is finally here

Nursie 8y ago

OK, but from what I can tell this isn't a fee for using java in a commercial setting, it's a fee for access to continued support/patching of Java 8. Java 9 is out. Java 10 is out. I can see why oracle might want to cut down their support costs and retire their older versions more quickly. However this will blow up in their faces if a lot of software gets exploited due to unpatched vulnerabilities.

ShardPhoenix 8y ago

Note: this applies to new updates to Java 8, as a result of the upcoming Java 11 taking over as the LTS version. Oracle is not charging for Java in general. As a result the headline and article come across as a bit FUDdy to me.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

_Codemonkeyism 8y ago

Poor journalism. 1. It's about EOL SE 8 2. "software running Java SE 8" - the article needs to be clear about Oracle Java, and Open JDK and others like Azul

dmix 8y ago

What is a "named user plus"?

BjoernKW 8y ago

That headline’s sensationalist and misleading. They’re going to charge for continued JDK 8 updates. JDK (and JRE) 11 will be the latest version by then. Only companies which need or want to stay on the previous version will have to pay.

jarym 8y ago

I don’t see anything wrong with charging commercial users for support of an old product. I’m no fan of Oracle of their sales practices but the title is very misleading by omission

nimchimpsky 8y ago

Does anyone use these : "Java SE Advanced Desktop", "Java SE Advanced", "Java SE Suite" ? I'd never heard of them until this announcement. The jdk, everything we develop and run on, is unaffected ?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago

Even though the clickbait title is false, I wouldn't be surprised if Oracle at some point decided it makes sense to kill Java by "monetizing" current releases it in this way.

bArray 8y ago

I'm not sure what the big deal is, they are charging for older version support. Not only this, I've been using and would recommend people switch to openjdk.

singularity2001 8y ago

blogspam / FUD or not, Kotlin is the beautiful future

RickJWagner 8y ago

This changes things. For one, Red Hat is now offering OpenJDK support for Windows.