4 ms·

It’s deeply atypical of the US labor movement because the Taft-Hartley act was specifically designed to curb union power and, correspondingly, class consciousne

It’s deeply atypical of the US labor movement because the Taft-Hartley act was specifically designed to curb union power and, correspondingly, class consciousness and class solidarity. This combined with the vicious (not to mention deeply anti-Semitic) purge of socialists and communists was intended to narrowly circumscribe what union membership meant and furthered.[0] It’s far different in Europe, where labor unions are much more expressly engaged with the formation of political parties that serve their interests[1] If tech workers are waking up to their class position as labor, learning the power inherent in collective action, refusing to help further US imperialism, that’s something to be celebrated. And if anything, it’s a brilliant recognition of their position relative to other laborers (highly paid and benefitted), that they first use their power for the sake of ethics before pursuing their self-interest. [0] https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/taft-hartley-unions-right-to-work https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/taft-hartley-unions-right-to-... [1] It’s a bit hard to explain in an HN post, but essentially, the way that labor-oriented political parties are constituted and have their priorities decided in the US is backwards from those in Europe (top-down vs bottom-up). Seth Ackerman outlines this in this podcast episode, if you have time to listen: https://www.blubrry.com/thedig/35556305/a-new-party-of-a-new-kind/ https://www.blubrry.com/thedig/35556305/a-new-party-of-a-new...

gt_ 8y ago
Not a chance. Like the comment below mentions, Snowden probable expected there were others like him. Nope. Not a one. Very few people have that sort of conviction. But mainly, technical work is just different in nature. It’s a lot more competitive and the hierarchy is more fluid. There’s not an obvious floor like there is with factory workers, where there are a few managers and administrators for hundreds of workers. And the work is almost never manual. Technical workers are also constantly concerned with implementation and that sh were their attention goes. I don’t ever see this actually happening.
- knuththetruth 8y ago
  Actually, lots of people have that conviction. Over a thousand people inside Google signed on against the company’s collaboration with the military, there was all kinds of internal outcry and contention at internal forums, they pushed strongly back against executives bald-faced lies. It already happened: https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-military-tech-workers https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-military... And here’s the thing about labor struggle: the reason why Capital owners try to quash it before it gets started is because it’s transformative. Once people see the power they have when they act collectively, what really turns the wheels at work and in society, they’re changed.
  - buth_lika 8y ago
    > Once people see the power they have when they act collectively Also, once people see things under the facade, such as > “Letting you ask that question is the voice that you have. Very few companies would allow you to do that.”
  - hueving 8y ago
    >Over a thousand people inside Google signed on against the company’s collaboration with the military Wow, signing a petition that didn't even risk getting them fired (Google encourages speaking your mind about business decisions). That's completely like the level of Snowden risking his life and fleeing the country. /s
  - gt_ 8y ago
    You’re replying to a devout Marxist. This is not a debate over the value of labor movements. There seems to be a reason the labor movement has squandered since the rise of the Military Industrial Complex, and what’s what I’m speaking to.
baud147258 8y ago
> the way that labor-oriented political parties are constituted and have their priorities decided in the US is backwards from those in Europe (top-down vs bottom-up) I don't believe the proposition that parties in Europe have their priorities decided in a bottom-up manner. And the problem with having labor unions that are not-quite political parties is that you'll end up with unions which are concerned by issue far of from the concerns of the workers, which then tend to not suscribe

gt_ 8y ago

Not a chance. Like the comment below mentions, Snowden probable expected there were others like him. Nope. Not a one. Very few people have that sort of conviction. But mainly, technical work is just different in nature. It’s a lot more competitive and the hierarchy is more fluid. There’s not an obvious floor like there is with factory workers, where there are a few managers and administrators for hundreds of workers. And the work is almost never manual. Technical workers are also constantly concerned with implementation and that sh were their attention goes. I don’t ever see this actually happening.

knuththetruth 8y ago
Actually, lots of people have that conviction. Over a thousand people inside Google signed on against the company’s collaboration with the military, there was all kinds of internal outcry and contention at internal forums, they pushed strongly back against executives bald-faced lies. It already happened: https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-military-tech-workers https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-military... And here’s the thing about labor struggle: the reason why Capital owners try to quash it before it gets started is because it’s transformative. Once people see the power they have when they act collectively, what really turns the wheels at work and in society, they’re changed.
- buth_lika 8y ago
  > Once people see the power they have when they act collectively Also, once people see things under the facade, such as > “Letting you ask that question is the voice that you have. Very few companies would allow you to do that.”
- hueving 8y ago
  >Over a thousand people inside Google signed on against the company’s collaboration with the military Wow, signing a petition that didn't even risk getting them fired (Google encourages speaking your mind about business decisions). That's completely like the level of Snowden risking his life and fleeing the country. /s
- gt_ 8y ago
  You’re replying to a devout Marxist. This is not a debate over the value of labor movements. There seems to be a reason the labor movement has squandered since the rise of the Military Industrial Complex, and what’s what I’m speaking to.

baud147258 8y ago

> the way that labor-oriented political parties are constituted and have their priorities decided in the US is backwards from those in Europe (top-down vs bottom-up) I don't believe the proposition that parties in Europe have their priorities decided in a bottom-up manner. And the problem with having labor unions that are not-quite political parties is that you'll end up with unions which are concerned by issue far of from the concerns of the workers, which then tend to not suscribe