3 ms·

From the docs: "One of the most frequently asked questions is “I have a 723 pump but it has version 2.5B software version. Has anyone figured out a way to make

by femto 8y ago

From the docs: "One of the most frequently asked questions is “I have a 723 pump but it has version 2.5B software version. Has anyone figured out a way to make newer model Medronic pumps compatible? Like flash older version of software onto my 723 2.5B pump?” The answer is “No. The ability to downgrade software versions in the pumps does not exist. It has been investigated and nobody has made any successful progress to that end.”" I'm curious as to what form the investigation took. Are you aware of an online record of this investigation? Are compatible pumps rare enough that the need to preserve them is constraining reverse engineering efforts? --- Edit: For those wondering what these things look like, here is the FCC submission including internal photos. FCC is involved because of the integrated wireless link. https://fccid.io/OH21510 https://fccid.io/OH21510 https://fccid.io/OH21510/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-2399025 https://fccid.io/OH21510/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-239... Looks like a System-on-a-Chip with separate memory chips? Can't make out the numbers. Opening in GIMP, it looks as if the photo has been doctored to remove chip numbers? That 12-pin unpopulated footprint on the processor board is for a test/JTAG header?

oh_sigh 8y ago
Someone should issue a challenge to hotz et al. My guess is that this the intersection between diabetics and reverse engineering hackers is only a very small number of people, so this kind of device or impact it could have on people might not even be generally known in the community
- sdmike1 8y ago
  As a "reverse engineering hacker" who is a diabetic with one of these pumps (The 670G to be specific) I have black boxed the shit out of it, but because it is doing a good job of keeping me alive and the cost of a new one is high I have yet to disassemble it and do a thorough RE of it. In ~4 years when the warranty is up an insurance is willing to replace it then I will be disassembling it and hacking the shit out of it.
  - femto 8y ago
    What happens to all the pumps that break? Chances are that the mechanics break before the electrics, so there will be a bunch of broken pumps with intact electronics somewhere in the wild. Can they be had as freebies for reverse engineering? Many would get returned to Medtronic under warranty, but there would be exceptions?
    - sdmike1 8y ago
      I had one mechanically fail this summer and my options were turn it in or pay $3,600 and as much as I want to RE it I don't want to spend $3,600 on it. So far medtronic is doing a very good job of limiting the secondhand market on these. I do make regular ebay crawls looking for them through. so far nothing has really turned up :(
LeonM 8y ago
Judging by the PCB photo's, that device is much more complitcated than I'd expected. Anyway, I would love to help the community with some reverse engineering.
jkeller_86 8y ago
Compatible pumps ARE that rare these days... I've seen them being sold online for anywhere from $500 - $3,000 depending on their condition. I've purchased a few as backups because it's not a question of IF my current one will fail, it's WHEN.
cubicthe 8y ago
(I have 2 723 2.3A pumps, using OpenAPS) A specific X-and-below is required because the RF protocol was reverse-engineered, presented at DEF CON 19 (2011), and the manufacturer locked it down immediately (PSK, gg). The new protocol has not been reverse engineered (this is for Medtronic Minimed) A newer style of RF pump from a different manufacturer (Insulet OmniPod) has been de-capped and had its protected-mode firmware scanned, and has been disassembled and picked through - and re-flashed firmware has been sent to that pump and works fine, and we understand the cryptographic protection algorithm (we can talk to them) and a great deal of the protocol. That still leaves a massive "forward engineering" and integration efforts that must be non-commercial by nature (because laws) edit: there are literally 7 of us that have access to the RE'ed firmware repo (it's a private github repo) - PM me if you're interested (there's a really irrelevant NDA that is involved, which I think is spooking wider sharing) Pump manufacturers are not technology leaders and have no forcing function to create open systems. There is no reason they could not publish the protocol and also allow me to enroll a key (knowingly voiding affected aspects of the warranty) and interact with a device that is legally part of my person. Of course, this is mostly a USA problem: for other jurisdictions there are open compatible pumps (http://www.sooil.com/eng/product/ http://www.sooil.com/eng/product/) that have this, but they are not available (including for insurance support of the consumables) in the USA

by femto 8y ago

oh_sigh 8y ago

Someone should issue a challenge to hotz et al. My guess is that this the intersection between diabetics and reverse engineering hackers is only a very small number of people, so this kind of device or impact it could have on people might not even be generally known in the community

sdmike1 8y ago
As a "reverse engineering hacker" who is a diabetic with one of these pumps (The 670G to be specific) I have black boxed the shit out of it, but because it is doing a good job of keeping me alive and the cost of a new one is high I have yet to disassemble it and do a thorough RE of it. In ~4 years when the warranty is up an insurance is willing to replace it then I will be disassembling it and hacking the shit out of it.
- femto 8y ago
  What happens to all the pumps that break? Chances are that the mechanics break before the electrics, so there will be a bunch of broken pumps with intact electronics somewhere in the wild. Can they be had as freebies for reverse engineering? Many would get returned to Medtronic under warranty, but there would be exceptions?
  - sdmike1 8y ago
    I had one mechanically fail this summer and my options were turn it in or pay $3,600 and as much as I want to RE it I don't want to spend $3,600 on it. So far medtronic is doing a very good job of limiting the secondhand market on these. I do make regular ebay crawls looking for them through. so far nothing has really turned up :(

LeonM 8y ago

Judging by the PCB photo's, that device is much more complitcated than I'd expected. Anyway, I would love to help the community with some reverse engineering.

jkeller_86 8y ago

Compatible pumps ARE that rare these days... I've seen them being sold online for anywhere from $500 - $3,000 depending on their condition. I've purchased a few as backups because it's not a question of IF my current one will fail, it's WHEN.

cubicthe 8y ago

(I have 2 723 2.3A pumps, using OpenAPS) A specific X-and-below is required because the RF protocol was reverse-engineered, presented at DEF CON 19 (2011), and the manufacturer locked it down immediately (PSK, gg). The new protocol has not been reverse engineered (this is for Medtronic Minimed) A newer style of RF pump from a different manufacturer (Insulet OmniPod) has been de-capped and had its protected-mode firmware scanned, and has been disassembled and picked through - and re-flashed firmware has been sent to that pump and works fine, and we understand the cryptographic protection algorithm (we can talk to them) and a great deal of the protocol. That still leaves a massive "forward engineering" and integration efforts that must be non-commercial by nature (because laws) edit: there are literally 7 of us that have access to the RE'ed firmware repo (it's a private github repo) - PM me if you're interested (there's a really irrelevant NDA that is involved, which I think is spooking wider sharing) Pump manufacturers are not technology leaders and have no forcing function to create open systems. There is no reason they could not publish the protocol and also allow me to enroll a key (knowingly voiding affected aspects of the warranty) and interact with a device that is legally part of my person. Of course, this is mostly a USA problem: for other jurisdictions there are open compatible pumps (http://www.sooil.com/eng/product/ http://www.sooil.com/eng/product/) that have this, but they are not available (including for insurance support of the consumables) in the USA