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I really question this "inline all CSS". Consider: - 1K of HTML with 40K of CSS in a file with a long term cache. Clicking a different page on the site downloa

I really question this "inline all CSS". Consider: - 1K of HTML with 40K of CSS in a file with a long term cache. Clicking a different page on the site downloads another 1K of HTML. - A 41K file with everything inlined. Clicking a link downloads another 41K.

megaremote 8y ago
Ok, but that does not sound like a real world example.
- technion 8y ago
  Why not? The Medium link we're all looking at right now has a 43KB CSS stylesheet. It's sent with browser headers giving it a long cache. In the AMP world, this whole stylesheet would end up inlined, and you would download it again the next time someone posted a Medium link on HN.
minitech 8y ago
The recommendations are to inline the important (render-blocking) CSS, so at most only the part of the CSS that applies to the 1K of HTML should be inlined.
- technion 8y ago
  The recommendation you describe is a violation of the AMP standard, which strictly disallows this for performance reasons.
  - minitech 8y ago
    Sorry, I was commenting generally. Don’t know about AMP. How does that make sense, though? What performance reasons could there possibly be for inlining CSS that doesn’t apply to any element in a page?
    - technion 8y ago
      Likewise, I'm sorry, I didn't mean "you have to inline CSS that doesn't apply". However, if you have non-render blocking CSS, or CSS that's used for below the fold or generally lower down the page content, "only render critical CSS inline" is usually coupled with "and then have the rest of your CSS in an external stylesheet". Which you are not allowed to do. Accordingly, it's ALL inline, all the time.
      - londons_explore 8y ago
        When surver push of resources gets better supported by browsers, I bet AMP will be updated to change this restriction.
ohBlahDeeBlah 8y ago
You're long-term cache is a fantasy. I use incognito/private browsing mode everywhere I go, and dump my browser state nearly every 5 minutes, by exiting the process at the OS level, to trash cookies and history. The cache rarely survives more than three clicks deep, and often only on trusted properties like Wikipedia, at that. So, maybe that would chop 124K down to 44K, saving 80K total, which is still reasonable, in aggregate across millions of users and billions of hits, but this degree of pessimism isn't the peak of avoidant behavior. Even if it's the minimum return, it needs to be accounted for as a potential norm.

megaremote 8y ago

Ok, but that does not sound like a real world example.

technion 8y ago
Why not? The Medium link we're all looking at right now has a 43KB CSS stylesheet. It's sent with browser headers giving it a long cache. In the AMP world, this whole stylesheet would end up inlined, and you would download it again the next time someone posted a Medium link on HN.

minitech 8y ago

The recommendations are to inline the important (render-blocking) CSS, so at most only the part of the CSS that applies to the 1K of HTML should be inlined.

technion 8y ago
The recommendation you describe is a violation of the AMP standard, which strictly disallows this for performance reasons.
- minitech 8y ago
  Sorry, I was commenting generally. Don’t know about AMP. How does that make sense, though? What performance reasons could there possibly be for inlining CSS that doesn’t apply to any element in a page?
  - technion 8y ago
    Likewise, I'm sorry, I didn't mean "you have to inline CSS that doesn't apply". However, if you have non-render blocking CSS, or CSS that's used for below the fold or generally lower down the page content, "only render critical CSS inline" is usually coupled with "and then have the rest of your CSS in an external stylesheet". Which you are not allowed to do. Accordingly, it's ALL inline, all the time.
    - londons_explore 8y ago
      When surver push of resources gets better supported by browsers, I bet AMP will be updated to change this restriction.

ohBlahDeeBlah 8y ago

You're long-term cache is a fantasy. I use incognito/private browsing mode everywhere I go, and dump my browser state nearly every 5 minutes, by exiting the process at the OS level, to trash cookies and history. The cache rarely survives more than three clicks deep, and often only on trusted properties like Wikipedia, at that. So, maybe that would chop 124K down to 44K, saving 80K total, which is still reasonable, in aggregate across millions of users and billions of hits, but this degree of pessimism isn't the peak of avoidant behavior. Even if it's the minimum return, it needs to be accounted for as a potential norm.