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My problem is that it does not even allow access to your own account. Nobody has a problem with access to others' accounts being regulated. I just want to do wh

My problem is that it does not even allow access to your own account. Nobody has a problem with access to others' accounts being regulated. I just want to do whatever I want with my own account.

miracle2k 8y ago
If you are allowed to access your data, then you can grant that access to third parties (pass along the API token). I happen to think that is great, but we live in a time where the idea of my sharing my Facebook account with an app is considered a problem, because it has a list of my friends. My financial history contains a lot of metadata about third parties. This is exactly the intersection between this overlay strict interpretation of privacy and my right to share my side of the data with third parties.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  At the moment you can already grant third parties access to your data - you can pass along your online banking credentials and they will scrape the web UI (there is an entire industry built on that - companies like TrueLayer will take any bank’s credentials and some cash and give you JSON in exchange, scraping the online banking UI behind the scenes). Stupid people will be stupid and will find a way to shoot themselves in the foot; doesn’t mean I should be prevented from accessing my own data.
  - close04 8y ago
    You are not and were never prevented from accessing your own data. You keep repeating that while also mentioning you have options to access it. You may not like the options you have to access that data because you have different needs than most other people. But insisting you're not allowed feels more than just exaggeration. Open banking means it's not 100% proprietary and exclusive to each bank, it doesn't mean they have to open all doors and say "do what you want, I'm not even here". Regulation is there with a reason especially when dealing with such sensitive topics. You get access but you have to meet some conditions and the bar will be set according to the sensitivity: confidential personal data and actual money? It's going to be pretty high. People are more than happy to blame regulators when they fail to put measures in place to protect people from major issues but will complain nonetheless if the regulation is there.
    - Rjevski 8y ago
      I am prevented from accessing my own data. A lot of bank's online banking is absolutely awful and doesn't go back more than 3 months worth of transactions. Thankfully none of this bullshit actually applies to me (I use Monzo Bank which does have an API) but I feel the pain for everyone else. > it doesn't mean they have to open all doors and say "do what you want, I'm not even here" So hold on, does this means we now need regulation on how we can use cash? Because at the moment, stupid people can withdraw all their cash and throw it away, and nobody is there to prevent them from doing so. How about we let people be responsible for their own data, and let them do whatever they want with it?
      - Nursie 8y ago
        > Because at the moment, stupid people can withdraw all their cash and throw it away, and nobody is there to prevent them from doing so. This is not actually a real world problem though. If it were it would likely be addressed. Why do so many people think only in theoretical extremes?
        Rjevski 8y ago
        I don’t see account access being abused either. People could already be giving out their credentials, but somehow it’s not happening, so I don’t see the argument against personal access tokens.
        Nursie 8y ago
        > People could already be giving out their credentials, but somehow it’s not happening, It is, people often get scammed into giving access to their accounts. Having more locked-down APIs is a way to move off from this.
        Rjevski 8y ago
        They are not using APIs to begin with. I'm not sure what else is there to lock down. Maybe we should just let idiots be idiots, and natural selection (or in this case, financial selection?) do its thing and the problem will go away eventually?
Nursie 8y ago
> My problem is that it does not even allow access to your own account. Here, use our application to aggregate data about your financial history, just give it access to your data and it'll give you all sorts of useful stats. Do not look behind the curtain, we're definitely not snaffling your data and giving it to anyone we feel like... --edit-- The number of people who would be competent to write their own API-using software is pretty tiny as a proportion of the population. If you allow people access to their own account data via an API then they will seek out software to help them access it. The regulations are about who can produce and distribute such software.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  > If you allow people access to their own account data via an API then they will seek out software to help them access it Is that a bad thing? How about we let people do whatever they want with their data? Not to mention the lack of APIs doesn’t stop this - there is an entire industry built on top of scraping bank’s web UIs. Companies like TrueLayer will happily take online banking credentials and provide you with an API, scraping the bank’s UI behind the scenes. A lot of financial aggregator apps use it for ages now.
  - Nursie 8y ago
    > Is that a bad thing? Of course not. But it makes sense to ensure that the vendors of these products are FCA approved. > How about we let people do whatever they want with their data? For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. > there is an entire industry built on top of scraping bank’s web UIs. There is, and now you can have a choice - a well functioning, secure ecosystem with oversight, or giving your login credentials to some third party to abuse as they see fit.
    - Rjevski 8y ago
      > For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. In that case, let's get rid of cash, cards, and frankly everything, because otherwise scammers will take advantage.

My problem is that it does not even allow access to your own account. Nobody has a problem with access to others' accounts being regulated. I just want to do whatever I want with my own account.

miracle2k 8y ago

If you are allowed to access your data, then you can grant that access to third parties (pass along the API token). I happen to think that is great, but we live in a time where the idea of my sharing my Facebook account with an app is considered a problem, because it has a list of my friends. My financial history contains a lot of metadata about third parties. This is exactly the intersection between this overlay strict interpretation of privacy and my right to share my side of the data with third parties.

Rjevski 8y ago
At the moment you can already grant third parties access to your data - you can pass along your online banking credentials and they will scrape the web UI (there is an entire industry built on that - companies like TrueLayer will take any bank’s credentials and some cash and give you JSON in exchange, scraping the online banking UI behind the scenes). Stupid people will be stupid and will find a way to shoot themselves in the foot; doesn’t mean I should be prevented from accessing my own data.
- close04 8y ago
  You are not and were never prevented from accessing your own data. You keep repeating that while also mentioning you have options to access it. You may not like the options you have to access that data because you have different needs than most other people. But insisting you're not allowed feels more than just exaggeration. Open banking means it's not 100% proprietary and exclusive to each bank, it doesn't mean they have to open all doors and say "do what you want, I'm not even here". Regulation is there with a reason especially when dealing with such sensitive topics. You get access but you have to meet some conditions and the bar will be set according to the sensitivity: confidential personal data and actual money? It's going to be pretty high. People are more than happy to blame regulators when they fail to put measures in place to protect people from major issues but will complain nonetheless if the regulation is there.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    I am prevented from accessing my own data. A lot of bank's online banking is absolutely awful and doesn't go back more than 3 months worth of transactions. Thankfully none of this bullshit actually applies to me (I use Monzo Bank which does have an API) but I feel the pain for everyone else. > it doesn't mean they have to open all doors and say "do what you want, I'm not even here" So hold on, does this means we now need regulation on how we can use cash? Because at the moment, stupid people can withdraw all their cash and throw it away, and nobody is there to prevent them from doing so. How about we let people be responsible for their own data, and let them do whatever they want with it?
    - Nursie 8y ago
      > Because at the moment, stupid people can withdraw all their cash and throw it away, and nobody is there to prevent them from doing so. This is not actually a real world problem though. If it were it would likely be addressed. Why do so many people think only in theoretical extremes?
      - Rjevski 8y ago
        I don’t see account access being abused either. People could already be giving out their credentials, but somehow it’s not happening, so I don’t see the argument against personal access tokens.
        Nursie 8y ago
        > People could already be giving out their credentials, but somehow it’s not happening, It is, people often get scammed into giving access to their accounts. Having more locked-down APIs is a way to move off from this.
        Rjevski 8y ago
        They are not using APIs to begin with. I'm not sure what else is there to lock down. Maybe we should just let idiots be idiots, and natural selection (or in this case, financial selection?) do its thing and the problem will go away eventually?

Nursie 8y ago

> My problem is that it does not even allow access to your own account. Here, use our application to aggregate data about your financial history, just give it access to your data and it'll give you all sorts of useful stats. Do not look behind the curtain, we're definitely not snaffling your data and giving it to anyone we feel like... --edit-- The number of people who would be competent to write their own API-using software is pretty tiny as a proportion of the population. If you allow people access to their own account data via an API then they will seek out software to help them access it. The regulations are about who can produce and distribute such software.

Rjevski 8y ago
> If you allow people access to their own account data via an API then they will seek out software to help them access it Is that a bad thing? How about we let people do whatever they want with their data? Not to mention the lack of APIs doesn’t stop this - there is an entire industry built on top of scraping bank’s web UIs. Companies like TrueLayer will happily take online banking credentials and provide you with an API, scraping the bank’s UI behind the scenes. A lot of financial aggregator apps use it for ages now.
- Nursie 8y ago
  > Is that a bad thing? Of course not. But it makes sense to ensure that the vendors of these products are FCA approved. > How about we let people do whatever they want with their data? For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. > there is an entire industry built on top of scraping bank’s web UIs. There is, and now you can have a choice - a well functioning, secure ecosystem with oversight, or giving your login credentials to some third party to abuse as they see fit.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    > For the same reason we can't have quite a lot of other nice things - scammers and shysters will take advantage. In that case, let's get rid of cash, cards, and frankly everything, because otherwise scammers will take advantage.