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Someone can disagree with the concept and/or implementation of race based admission policies without being a racist eugenicist. I believe my confusion stems fr

• KirinDave 8y ago
  > Someone can disagree with the concept and/or implementation of race based admission policies without being a racist eugenicist. I agree. However, you went a step further and started suggesting a biological essentialism and history erasure. If you simply didn't know you were doing that then admit your opinion is ahistorical and go research the subject. I think you're are now walking this statement back because it was such a weak point. I'm going to take screenshots in case you attempt to abuse editing. > When it sounds like you do believe asian Americans start in a better place due to historical immigration policies and trends. Please see Dr. Eugenia Cheng's 2017 talk "Category Theory in the Real World" for a primer in how to interpret this. There are multiple axis of privilege. Interestingly enough, admissions standards often address these axis by also considering family income and other historical details like presence or loss of family members. The existence of affirmative action for specific groups does not create a zero sum exercise for white Americans, who also have access to a larger number of economic and social criterion for admissions and financial aid.
  • hnaccy 8y ago
    >started suggesting a biological essentialism Where? The existence of affirmative action for specific groups necessarily disadvantages other groups based on their race.
    • KirinDave 8y ago
      > The existence of affirmative action for specific groups necessarily disadvantages other groups based on their race. Why?
      • hnaccy 8y ago
        If the number of applicants exceeds the number of spots and some are assigned a higher value due to their race then applicants of other races are disadvantaged.
        • KirinDave 8y ago
          Actually: I don't see how either of us could make a meaningful case on if this does or does not happen without access to more data and transparency from orgs on their admissions process and criterion. This article exposing the bias is great because it's a step forward towards transparency there, and we see that in fact qualified women were being actively turned down strictly because men were preferred via bias. Ultimately we're asking for what proportion of applicants WERE qualified but denied because they didn't have a "spot", the total admissions volumes, and what that intersection is. What's more, most students apply to multiple colleges and only a few have specific environments that are specifically necessary (you might argue, for example Stanford's connection with the startup world makes it especially desirable, but look at what a untalented failure Lucas Duplan is... maybe not...), it simply changes outcomes in a way that isn't particularly disadvantaging. Personally and in an unsubstantiated musing: I believe that the actual case where a student "doesn't get in to college because of their race" is astonishingly rare. The US has a large enough population that the law of large numbers surely makes a few, and that's one of many reasons I've dedicated my career to providing education for as long as I stay in the field. But your argument seems to carry this unspoken corollary that there aren't resources for white folks or men, but that's something that seems to follow from what evidence I've found. I've found a few sources that suggest white people get about 60% of the private scholarship funding in the US.
          • hnaccy 8y ago
            From the current Harvard case: >For example, Dr. Card’s simulations show that if Harvard had not considered race, the proportion of African-American students in the Class of 2019 would have dropped from 14% to 6%, and the proportion of Hispanic or Other students would have dropped from 14% to 9%. It follows that there was a group of applications numbering 13% of the Class of 2019 who were disadvantaged due to their race. Yes it's probably quite rare that a student is rejected at say HYP and does not get into any other college but I don't see why that matters? We accept that there is a benefit to attending certain schools over others why should it depend on your race whether or not you "deserve" your first choice or should be happy with second or third choice college? >But your argument seems to carry this unspoken corollary that there aren't resources for white folks or men You're inferring that.