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Yes... stealing money is a crime in the US. You're allowed to take from tip jars in England? That doesn't sound right to me. But I don't know much about English

Yes... stealing money is a crime in the US. You're allowed to take from tip jars in England? That doesn't sound right to me. But I don't know much about English law.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Yes... stealing money is a crime in the US. Theft in the US generally involves intent, not merely taking. There was certainly probable cause to arrest for petty theft, but a taking under an honest mistake of ownership is not theft, so, if one accepts Aaronson’s account, he did not, in fact, commit theft. OTOH, whether a jury would believe it plausible that not only did he initially forget that he had paid by card and mistake the tip jar for change but, when told that the container from which he had just taken money was for tips, still did not realize that the money he had taken was tips and not his change is another question, so I wouldn't have been surprised if, if this had gone further, he had been convicted of theft even if his narrative of th facts external to his mental state were accepted as true.
DanBC 8y ago
In England theft requires dishonest appropriation with the intent to permanently deprive the owner. I'm not sure what he did meets all of those tests. I'm not sure it meets "dishonest" - it sounds like it was a simple mistake.
- jdoliner 8y ago
  I think the amount stolen here probably precludes prosecution in most jurisdictions. But I have trouble believing that if it was a larger amount he'd be able to just say: "I was mistaken, I thought their money was my money." I'm not a lawyer but that seems like far too abusable of a defense.
  - edanm 8y ago
    According to what he says happened, this couldn't have happened with a larger amount without him realizing it. Theft in the US afaik is also defined as "intent to deprive". That's why e.g. joyriding is different than grand theft auto.
nabla9 8y ago
Theft or larceny requires specific intent to permanently deprive another individual of his or her property. There exists also strict liability crimes where intent is not considered but theft is not one of them.

Yes... stealing money is a crime in the US. You're allowed to take from tip jars in England? That doesn't sound right to me. But I don't know much about English law.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Yes... stealing money is a crime in the US. Theft in the US generally involves intent, not merely taking. There was certainly probable cause to arrest for petty theft, but a taking under an honest mistake of ownership is not theft, so, if one accepts Aaronson’s account, he did not, in fact, commit theft. OTOH, whether a jury would believe it plausible that not only did he initially forget that he had paid by card and mistake the tip jar for change but, when told that the container from which he had just taken money was for tips, still did not realize that the money he had taken was tips and not his change is another question, so I wouldn't have been surprised if, if this had gone further, he had been convicted of theft even if his narrative of th facts external to his mental state were accepted as true.

DanBC 8y ago

In England theft requires dishonest appropriation with the intent to permanently deprive the owner. I'm not sure what he did meets all of those tests. I'm not sure it meets "dishonest" - it sounds like it was a simple mistake.

jdoliner 8y ago
I think the amount stolen here probably precludes prosecution in most jurisdictions. But I have trouble believing that if it was a larger amount he'd be able to just say: "I was mistaken, I thought their money was my money." I'm not a lawyer but that seems like far too abusable of a defense.
- edanm 8y ago
  According to what he says happened, this couldn't have happened with a larger amount without him realizing it. Theft in the US afaik is also defined as "intent to deprive". That's why e.g. joyriding is different than grand theft auto.

nabla9 8y ago

Theft or larceny requires specific intent to permanently deprive another individual of his or her property. There exists also strict liability crimes where intent is not considered but theft is not one of them.