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Expecting downvotes, but looking for ideas- Serious question, what is the issue with inequality when low income people are overweight and have iphones? This i

Expecting downvotes, but looking for ideas- Serious question, what is the issue with inequality when low income people are overweight and have iphones? This is obviously a simplification, but in 1 sentence I think I got my point across. Standard of living is undisputed the best in human history, not even some 1960s era fantasy has overweight humans. This has nothing to do with 'unhealthy' food, this is abundance. So back to the serious question, what makes inequality bad? Some ideas >Political inequality >multi-generational oppression(which doesnt line up with the whole "First generation makes it. 2nd generation maintains it, 3rd generation blows it") I'm trying to understand the issue with inequality when everyone is living a fantastic by organic life standards.

kartan 8y ago
> Serious question, what is the issue with inequality when low income people are overweight and have iphones? People is overweight because they can not afford healthy food. Fruits and other healthier food is more expensive than junk food. Poor people does not have iPhones. They have cheap Android devices that they need to work, keep in contact with family, etc. > Standard of living is undisputed the best in human history In the USA you can see a difference of life expectancy based on their economically status. So, people is dying earlier and this can be avoided. > I'm trying to understand the issue with inequality when everyone is living a fantastic by organic life standards. So this is the end of all progress? We are good now, lets stop improving health care, education, etc.? Let people die at 70 even when they could have a more healthy live to be 80? Let a cancer patient die because "on average" society is better and his suffering is just statistics? Your argument is based in the misconception that things can not improve anymore. That people does not deserve better that what they have now. You will probably get support in the Amish community, for example. But most of the world moved past that point.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  >People is overweight because they can not afford healthy food. Fruits and other healthier food is more expensive than junk food. This is wrong. I study food as my expertise, and junk food is always less than 200 calories per dollar. Fresh fruit is similar while home cooked food is a significantly better value. I wont address the other points until you revise this one. Its factually incorrect. Google Calories Per Dollar or Nutrient Per Dollar, or Mcdonalds Calories Per Dollar. The data exists and you need to get up to speed.
  - orthecreedence 8y ago
    What about prep time? Calories-per-dollar / prep time. That might be a factor, especially with the long hours many poor people face.
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      Funny you mention this, the actual unit would be Calories squared/(dollar*second). The article was studied literally yesterday and the conclusion for under 3 minute (prep) meals was that Ramen was number 1. However, I'm considering putting this recipe on the list since its a slow cooker http://www.kidsinkitchens.org/ http://www.kidsinkitchens.org/
  - kartan 8y ago
    I have seen in this thread people comparing prepared food to raw food. And, of course, raw food is cheaper. You need to compare apples to apples. Prepared healthy food is way more expensive than junk food. Healthy diet costs three times that of junk food https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11149644/Healthy-diet-costs-three-times-that-of-junk-food.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11149644/Healthy-diet-costs... I hope that his answers your question and we can talk about the rest of the points. :)
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      Ouch Telegraph? Remember that the telegraph posted this advertisement https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-is-cheapest-and-most-nutritious-food-in-human-history.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-i... Google Efficiency Is Everything. Thats actually data and not some tabloid click bait.
- white-flame 8y ago
  > People is overweight because they can not afford healthy food. Fruits and other healthier food is more expensive than junk food. While I agree with the sentiment of your post, the meme quoted above needs to stop. Two bags of Doritos cost as much as a package of raw chicken that can feed a family, not to mention mass quantities of rice, beans, or even potatoes. Fruits and vegetables are very often <1 USD per pound. A single fast food combo meal can hit $10 USD, which can be groceries for one person for a week. The problem with bad diets emerge from high stress, transportation issues, and lack of food education; not price tags.
  - orthecreedence 8y ago
    I just had Burger King at the airport the other day. I could have easily gotten away with spending $3 for an entire meal, with sugar water included. For a meal, that's pretty cheap. Especially if I work a 12 hours shift and don't have time to cook. Also, I grew up in the midwest, and often fruits and veggies look like they were picked up off the side of a freeway. Not saying that you're entirely wrong, but neither is the "it's cheaper to eat shitty food" camp. There's probably a happy medium: less sugar, less meat, less stress, better education, better prices...all things that would help.
    - white-flame 8y ago
      Yes, when I eat fast food, it's always from the value menu. But if you're strapped for cash, $3 per meal on a consistent basis still adds up, compared to <$1 meals prepared at home and ready to grab from the fridge. Certainly convenience & taste is a factor in these decisions as well, but if the primary pain point is raw cost for your baseline consumption because you have no money to spare, you really should be kitchen-based. Of course, all of this assumes that one is being financially sensitive, and not just impulse spending without realizing how much is trickling out. Too many people I know who struggle with their meager finances (even if they make similar or more than I do) are entirely too flippant and just go for the $10 combo meal, not realizing how often they're "treating themselves" and how it's adding up against their monthly balance.
      - 8y ago
WhompingWindows 8y ago
As others have said, obesity is not a symptom of wealth, as much as it's a symptom of poverty, as the two conditions are highly correlated. There are things such as food deserts, for instance on the south side of Chicago, there is plenty of healthy eating near UChicago where the rich people live. Head West or South into the "war zone" neighborhoods, and you'll see convenient stores everywhere selling mostly processed junk food that is addicting to those nearby, and also may be the cheapest/closest choice. Furthermore, there has been some research to indicate that those in poverty may be less able to save money, psychologically speaking, and may have spending patterns that are not useful in alleviating poverty. For instance, if you have very little wealth but a decent income, say $25-35k as an individual, you may be able to afford an iPhone or nicer car or jewelry, however your spending on those items is now a confounder of the overall wealth gap. Some of those who are poor may be so because they do not exercise the set of behaviors that leads to wealth aggregation. Overall, globally speaking, I do agree we are in a period where vast numbers of asians and africans are being lifted out of poverty, even as those poor in some developed nations are still in poverty within their own countries. If we look at a multi-national level, however, the trend is towards more middle class individuals world-wide.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
"Serious question, what is the issue with inequality when low income people are overweight and have iphones?" This is a dog whistle that indicates that you are not conversing in good faith.

kartan 8y ago

> Serious question, what is the issue with inequality when low income people are overweight and have iphones? People is overweight because they can not afford healthy food. Fruits and other healthier food is more expensive than junk food. Poor people does not have iPhones. They have cheap Android devices that they need to work, keep in contact with family, etc. > Standard of living is undisputed the best in human history In the USA you can see a difference of life expectancy based on their economically status. So, people is dying earlier and this can be avoided. > I'm trying to understand the issue with inequality when everyone is living a fantastic by organic life standards. So this is the end of all progress? We are good now, lets stop improving health care, education, etc.? Let people die at 70 even when they could have a more healthy live to be 80? Let a cancer patient die because "on average" society is better and his suffering is just statistics? Your argument is based in the misconception that things can not improve anymore. That people does not deserve better that what they have now. You will probably get support in the Amish community, for example. But most of the world moved past that point.

mkirklions 8y ago
>People is overweight because they can not afford healthy food. Fruits and other healthier food is more expensive than junk food. This is wrong. I study food as my expertise, and junk food is always less than 200 calories per dollar. Fresh fruit is similar while home cooked food is a significantly better value. I wont address the other points until you revise this one. Its factually incorrect. Google Calories Per Dollar or Nutrient Per Dollar, or Mcdonalds Calories Per Dollar. The data exists and you need to get up to speed.
- orthecreedence 8y ago
  What about prep time? Calories-per-dollar / prep time. That might be a factor, especially with the long hours many poor people face.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    Funny you mention this, the actual unit would be Calories squared/(dollar*second). The article was studied literally yesterday and the conclusion for under 3 minute (prep) meals was that Ramen was number 1. However, I'm considering putting this recipe on the list since its a slow cooker http://www.kidsinkitchens.org/ http://www.kidsinkitchens.org/
- kartan 8y ago
  I have seen in this thread people comparing prepared food to raw food. And, of course, raw food is cheaper. You need to compare apples to apples. Prepared healthy food is way more expensive than junk food. Healthy diet costs three times that of junk food https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11149644/Healthy-diet-costs-three-times-that-of-junk-food.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11149644/Healthy-diet-costs... I hope that his answers your question and we can talk about the rest of the points. :)
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    Ouch Telegraph? Remember that the telegraph posted this advertisement https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-is-cheapest-and-most-nutritious-food-in-human-history.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-i... Google Efficiency Is Everything. Thats actually data and not some tabloid click bait.
white-flame 8y ago
> People is overweight because they can not afford healthy food. Fruits and other healthier food is more expensive than junk food. While I agree with the sentiment of your post, the meme quoted above needs to stop. Two bags of Doritos cost as much as a package of raw chicken that can feed a family, not to mention mass quantities of rice, beans, or even potatoes. Fruits and vegetables are very often <1 USD per pound. A single fast food combo meal can hit $10 USD, which can be groceries for one person for a week. The problem with bad diets emerge from high stress, transportation issues, and lack of food education; not price tags.
- orthecreedence 8y ago
  I just had Burger King at the airport the other day. I could have easily gotten away with spending $3 for an entire meal, with sugar water included. For a meal, that's pretty cheap. Especially if I work a 12 hours shift and don't have time to cook. Also, I grew up in the midwest, and often fruits and veggies look like they were picked up off the side of a freeway. Not saying that you're entirely wrong, but neither is the "it's cheaper to eat shitty food" camp. There's probably a happy medium: less sugar, less meat, less stress, better education, better prices...all things that would help.
  - white-flame 8y ago
    Yes, when I eat fast food, it's always from the value menu. But if you're strapped for cash, $3 per meal on a consistent basis still adds up, compared to <$1 meals prepared at home and ready to grab from the fridge. Certainly convenience & taste is a factor in these decisions as well, but if the primary pain point is raw cost for your baseline consumption because you have no money to spare, you really should be kitchen-based. Of course, all of this assumes that one is being financially sensitive, and not just impulse spending without realizing how much is trickling out. Too many people I know who struggle with their meager finances (even if they make similar or more than I do) are entirely too flippant and just go for the $10 combo meal, not realizing how often they're "treating themselves" and how it's adding up against their monthly balance.
    - 8y ago

WhompingWindows 8y ago

As others have said, obesity is not a symptom of wealth, as much as it's a symptom of poverty, as the two conditions are highly correlated. There are things such as food deserts, for instance on the south side of Chicago, there is plenty of healthy eating near UChicago where the rich people live. Head West or South into the "war zone" neighborhoods, and you'll see convenient stores everywhere selling mostly processed junk food that is addicting to those nearby, and also may be the cheapest/closest choice. Furthermore, there has been some research to indicate that those in poverty may be less able to save money, psychologically speaking, and may have spending patterns that are not useful in alleviating poverty. For instance, if you have very little wealth but a decent income, say $25-35k as an individual, you may be able to afford an iPhone or nicer car or jewelry, however your spending on those items is now a confounder of the overall wealth gap. Some of those who are poor may be so because they do not exercise the set of behaviors that leads to wealth aggregation. Overall, globally speaking, I do agree we are in a period where vast numbers of asians and africans are being lifted out of poverty, even as those poor in some developed nations are still in poverty within their own countries. If we look at a multi-national level, however, the trend is towards more middle class individuals world-wide.

s73v3r_ 8y ago

"Serious question, what is the issue with inequality when low income people are overweight and have iphones?" This is a dog whistle that indicates that you are not conversing in good faith.