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You are using the "she asked for it" argument to rationalize this behavior. Stop. Harassing people is wrong.

ordinaryradical 8y ago
That is absolutely not the argument I’m making. I’m pointing out that if you objectify yourself for consumption people get weird. That doesn’t make what the men do okay either—far from it—but it doesn’t make it new and it also doesn’t make it sexism. As has been said elsewhere in this thread, celebrities have been dealing with this kind of behavior since forever. Is this an outcome of making oneself in a fantasy relationship with ones viewers? Absolutely.
- kup0 8y ago
  Not sure "this always happens so get used to it / stop complaining / don't be surprised" does anything other the blame the person getting harassed. The argument is indeed dangerously close to "you dressed immodestly so you deserve it". It's only missing the deserve sentiment, but is still roughly, "X always happens when you do Y, so it's your fault that X happens if you keep doing Y"
  - ordinaryradical 8y ago
    Because, as said elsewhere in this topic, the sexes are not coequals in sexual selection, not even close. And when someone zooms in on a peculiar dynamic like this one and says “AHA, men!” they completely miss this. This is built into the nature of sexual relationships across the genders and possibly even gender itself. What I’m talking about is descriptive, not oughts. No one ought to be harassed, but people will keep doing this because it is an outflowing of an emasculated culture. What I don’t like about your line of argument is how it infantilizes women. It’s clear just by the nature of how this medium has developed that it’s going to create unwanted or unrecriprocated sexual attention. It’s a fantasy relationship simulator. That doesn’t make harassment okay, either. But how do you police this? Are you really saying women need to be protected from the precise male gaze they are courting? How? Not only is this impractical, demonizing men or trying to frame this as a woman’s liberation issue just furthers the emasculation culture which leads to the creepy, inappropriate behavior you take issue with
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
Actually, the argument is "they're just whores anyway". Note the bit about "commoditizing sexuality" - this, referring to streamers of games or ordinary lives etc, not sex acts.

That is absolutely not the argument I’m making. I’m pointing out that if you objectify yourself for consumption people get weird. That doesn’t make what the men do okay either—far from it—but it doesn’t make it new and it also doesn’t make it sexism. As has been said elsewhere in this thread, celebrities have been dealing with this kind of behavior since forever. Is this an outcome of making oneself in a fantasy relationship with ones viewers? Absolutely.

kup0 8y ago
Not sure "this always happens so get used to it / stop complaining / don't be surprised" does anything other the blame the person getting harassed. The argument is indeed dangerously close to "you dressed immodestly so you deserve it". It's only missing the deserve sentiment, but is still roughly, "X always happens when you do Y, so it's your fault that X happens if you keep doing Y"
- ordinaryradical 8y ago
  Because, as said elsewhere in this topic, the sexes are not coequals in sexual selection, not even close. And when someone zooms in on a peculiar dynamic like this one and says “AHA, men!” they completely miss this. This is built into the nature of sexual relationships across the genders and possibly even gender itself. What I’m talking about is descriptive, not oughts. No one ought to be harassed, but people will keep doing this because it is an outflowing of an emasculated culture. What I don’t like about your line of argument is how it infantilizes women. It’s clear just by the nature of how this medium has developed that it’s going to create unwanted or unrecriprocated sexual attention. It’s a fantasy relationship simulator. That doesn’t make harassment okay, either. But how do you police this? Are you really saying women need to be protected from the precise male gaze they are courting? How? Not only is this impractical, demonizing men or trying to frame this as a woman’s liberation issue just furthers the emasculation culture which leads to the creepy, inappropriate behavior you take issue with

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

Actually, the argument is "they're just whores anyway". Note the bit about "commoditizing sexuality" - this, referring to streamers of games or ordinary lives etc, not sex acts.