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As a New Yorker and a driver, I can tell you I've been gobsmacked by the resistance put up to fight protected bike lanes and speed cameras (which we just lost i

As a New Yorker and a driver, I can tell you I've been gobsmacked by the resistance put up to fight protected bike lanes and speed cameras (which we just lost in bulk as the legislation supporting them was not renewed). Madness.

fibonachos 8y ago
As a former Phoenix resident, I completely understand the resistance to speed cameras. They are always touted as a public safety measure, but widely regarded as little more than a revenue machine. In my experience, the trigger speed was always perilously close to the natural flow of traffic which (at least in the places where I have lived) is consistently the speed limit + some amount. The net effect was always a sudden, dramatic slowing of traffic in the camera zone followed by a return to business-as-usual. Edit: I should clarify that these were freeway speed cameras. Maybe they are more effective as a safety device in pedestrian-heavy areas, but I have no experience with the cameras is that context.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Automation here encourages overreporting and other abuses - it's law enforcement automation, so an alternative would be to hire more officers to apply the law. Automating this work increases the amount of law applied for the same cost.
- alexhutcheson 8y ago
  The "natural flow of traffic" in Manhattan and other dense parts of the 5 boroughs is dangerously fast, and way over the posted speed limit. I don't think the arguments against freeway speed cameras really hold up in this context.
- Flowsion 8y ago
  In South Korea, this is taken to an extreme. Every freeway speed camera is indicated on the default Maps app. It beeps (shorter and louder as the camera gets closer) and then stops. So everyone just slows down as their maps beep and speed up again once they pass the camera. But, I think this is accepted practice and my suspicion is that a lot of these cameras aren't even real. Just by having them placed along the freeway every x metres, they force cars to constantly slow down.
  - privacypoller 8y ago
    people dramatically slowing down then speeding up is likely more dangerous than everyone maintaining a speed higher than the posted limit, which makes the cameras a net negative from a safety perspective. Highways built for safety and limited speed differential across users is so much safer than limiting top speeds.
    - cimmanom 8y ago
      More dangerous to drivers (especially those inclined to drive at dangerous speeds), maybe. More dangerous for pedestrians? I'm not sure about that -- especially if nobody's obeying the limit in the first place, getting drivers to slow down at all is a good thing. Or do you like to have drivers speeding at 50MPH down the narrow side street (signed at 20MPH) your kids cross every day to get to school?
      - ghusbands 8y ago
        They're talking about freeways and highways, not narrow side streets.
- cimmanom 8y ago
  The cameras we just lost were in mostly-residential areas on mostly-side streets, and all in school zones. These aren't freeways. Every street in NYC is trafficked heavily by pedestrians, and that goes double near schools - where it's especially important for drivers to stick strictly to the speed limit.
HaloZero 8y ago
According to this article it seems to be: - They take away from parking spots - I don't care about cyclists - Maybe a bit of anti-gentrification sentiment https://qns.com/story/2018/06/08/dont-care-cyclists-board-2-votes-protected-bike-lanes-sunnyside/ https://qns.com/story/2018/06/08/dont-care-cyclists-board-2-...
dagoat 8y ago
I think I'd rather have speed cameras than a multitude of state troopers/cops. But that is dependent on the type of camera. A few places in the US have gotten out of control with the number of law enforcement setting up speed traps on commuter routes. At least I know where a speed camera is if I live in the area.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> I've been gobsmacked by the resistance put up to fight protected bike lanes Two factors. One, traffic lanes are generally reduced; street side parking is left untouched. This leads to congestion and noise. Two, some bikers in New York are assholes to pedestrians. Most are not, but the sting of a biker riding the wrong way, running a red light and narrowly missing you while cussing you for the gaul of walking on a designated crossing stays for a while.
- bluntfang 8y ago
  I bet more cars are assholes to pedestrians than bikers and I know that cars cause more pedestrian deaths than bikers. Why aren't people more outraged about cars?
kevstev 8y ago
When Citibike was first announced, there was all kinds of outrage. Comments predicting that it will be mayhem, there will be a bloodbath, it will snarl the streets, and all kinds of other doomsday scenarios were put forth in hearings and online forums. None of it came to pass. There has been one fatality with Citibike in 5+ years, during which 60+ million trips have been taken. The city has adjusted to the increase cycling activity- I used to get cut off, honked at, and generally harassed for being on "their" road, but the active hostility is all but gone, and I see many more drivers actively looking at the bike lane before attempting a turn. NY is large enough that there will always be a vocal minority to change. In my own building I was in disbelief when a board member is trying to drum up resistance to a citibike rack being put outside of our building. He is an older gentleman, and just a month before had been complaining about cars illegally parking in the space across the street where they proposed to put the rack. When pressed about what his specific concern was, the best he could come up with is "it will be bad for the buildings value!" and got visibly angry with me when I asked how additional transportation options would decrease the value of the building...
- jseliger 8y ago
  the active hostility is all but gone, and I see many more drivers actively looking at the bike lane before attempting a turn. I wonder if this has anything to do with the prevalence of cameras on bikes, too. I've seen a lot of action cams on bikes and helmets, and those may encourage less-jerky behavior.
  - blacksmith_tb 8y ago
    I ride with one, but I am skeptical that drivers notice or consider them, really. It's more of an insurance policy than a deterrent, in other words.

fibonachos 8y ago

As a former Phoenix resident, I completely understand the resistance to speed cameras. They are always touted as a public safety measure, but widely regarded as little more than a revenue machine. In my experience, the trigger speed was always perilously close to the natural flow of traffic which (at least in the places where I have lived) is consistently the speed limit + some amount. The net effect was always a sudden, dramatic slowing of traffic in the camera zone followed by a return to business-as-usual. Edit: I should clarify that these were freeway speed cameras. Maybe they are more effective as a safety device in pedestrian-heavy areas, but I have no experience with the cameras is that context.

stephengillie 8y ago
Automation here encourages overreporting and other abuses - it's law enforcement automation, so an alternative would be to hire more officers to apply the law. Automating this work increases the amount of law applied for the same cost.
alexhutcheson 8y ago
The "natural flow of traffic" in Manhattan and other dense parts of the 5 boroughs is dangerously fast, and way over the posted speed limit. I don't think the arguments against freeway speed cameras really hold up in this context.
Flowsion 8y ago
In South Korea, this is taken to an extreme. Every freeway speed camera is indicated on the default Maps app. It beeps (shorter and louder as the camera gets closer) and then stops. So everyone just slows down as their maps beep and speed up again once they pass the camera. But, I think this is accepted practice and my suspicion is that a lot of these cameras aren't even real. Just by having them placed along the freeway every x metres, they force cars to constantly slow down.
- privacypoller 8y ago
  people dramatically slowing down then speeding up is likely more dangerous than everyone maintaining a speed higher than the posted limit, which makes the cameras a net negative from a safety perspective. Highways built for safety and limited speed differential across users is so much safer than limiting top speeds.
  - cimmanom 8y ago
    More dangerous to drivers (especially those inclined to drive at dangerous speeds), maybe. More dangerous for pedestrians? I'm not sure about that -- especially if nobody's obeying the limit in the first place, getting drivers to slow down at all is a good thing. Or do you like to have drivers speeding at 50MPH down the narrow side street (signed at 20MPH) your kids cross every day to get to school?
    - ghusbands 8y ago
      They're talking about freeways and highways, not narrow side streets.
cimmanom 8y ago
The cameras we just lost were in mostly-residential areas on mostly-side streets, and all in school zones. These aren't freeways. Every street in NYC is trafficked heavily by pedestrians, and that goes double near schools - where it's especially important for drivers to stick strictly to the speed limit.

HaloZero 8y ago

According to this article it seems to be: - They take away from parking spots - I don't care about cyclists - Maybe a bit of anti-gentrification sentiment https://qns.com/story/2018/06/08/dont-care-cyclists-board-2-votes-protected-bike-lanes-sunnyside/ https://qns.com/story/2018/06/08/dont-care-cyclists-board-2-...

dagoat 8y ago

I think I'd rather have speed cameras than a multitude of state troopers/cops. But that is dependent on the type of camera. A few places in the US have gotten out of control with the number of law enforcement setting up speed traps on commuter routes. At least I know where a speed camera is if I live in the area.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> I've been gobsmacked by the resistance put up to fight protected bike lanes Two factors. One, traffic lanes are generally reduced; street side parking is left untouched. This leads to congestion and noise. Two, some bikers in New York are assholes to pedestrians. Most are not, but the sting of a biker riding the wrong way, running a red light and narrowly missing you while cussing you for the gaul of walking on a designated crossing stays for a while.

bluntfang 8y ago
I bet more cars are assholes to pedestrians than bikers and I know that cars cause more pedestrian deaths than bikers. Why aren't people more outraged about cars?

kevstev 8y ago

When Citibike was first announced, there was all kinds of outrage. Comments predicting that it will be mayhem, there will be a bloodbath, it will snarl the streets, and all kinds of other doomsday scenarios were put forth in hearings and online forums. None of it came to pass. There has been one fatality with Citibike in 5+ years, during which 60+ million trips have been taken. The city has adjusted to the increase cycling activity- I used to get cut off, honked at, and generally harassed for being on "their" road, but the active hostility is all but gone, and I see many more drivers actively looking at the bike lane before attempting a turn. NY is large enough that there will always be a vocal minority to change. In my own building I was in disbelief when a board member is trying to drum up resistance to a citibike rack being put outside of our building. He is an older gentleman, and just a month before had been complaining about cars illegally parking in the space across the street where they proposed to put the rack. When pressed about what his specific concern was, the best he could come up with is "it will be bad for the buildings value!" and got visibly angry with me when I asked how additional transportation options would decrease the value of the building...

jseliger 8y ago
the active hostility is all but gone, and I see many more drivers actively looking at the bike lane before attempting a turn. I wonder if this has anything to do with the prevalence of cameras on bikes, too. I've seen a lot of action cams on bikes and helmets, and those may encourage less-jerky behavior.
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  I ride with one, but I am skeptical that drivers notice or consider them, really. It's more of an insurance policy than a deterrent, in other words.