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I mean, if you’re going to commoditize your sexuality as a product in an interactive medium, should you really be surprised that people will cross boundaries wi

I mean, if you’re going to commoditize your sexuality as a product in an interactive medium, should you really be surprised that people will cross boundaries with you in attempting to have “more?” Seems pretty obvious that there is some kind of fantasy element to watching these streamers that a part of the audience gets off on. People can trick themselves into believing they have a “relationship” in this format even more easily than with other forms of media. And much like the fans of K-pop idols, having that fantasy be intruded on by reality upsets the fantasizer. The emasculated, or creepy, would of course want a medium that didn’t contain the risks of true human contact or relationship, so I don’t think this is a particularly surprising outcome given the audience this medium attracts. Couching this as “yet one more difficulty women face” or proof of inequality is completely missing the forest for the trees.

dljsjr 8y ago
Are you trying to say that literally every female streamer on Twitch is "commoditizing [their] sexuality?"
- Proziam 8y ago
  Of course, not all of them are, but there are many who actively use Twitch to promote "premium" snapchats, or NSFW patreons. The streamers that engage in this are creating a really negative space for the female streamers who just want to use the platform without that added pressure. And it's important to understand that a large portion of the Twitch audience is quite young and impressionable.
  - dljsjr 8y ago
    That's totally orthogonal to the article though, I've seen this sort of behavior from viewers in streams where the streamer didn't even have a face cam.
    - Proziam 8y ago
      Unfortunately, I can't comment without more context on that particular example. However, from my experience, I've seen a very strong correlation between the sexualization of content on the platform and the harassment on the platform as a whole. My theory, and it really is just a theory, is that the users (81.5% Males) and many under the age of 18, are "primed" to expect certain behavior or reactions due to the prevalence on the platform. This leads to these people acting like total asshats to all female streamers, even when they go out of their way to avoid any potential for sexualization.
metajack 8y ago
You are using the "she asked for it" argument to rationalize this behavior. Stop. Harassing people is wrong.
- ordinaryradical 8y ago
  That is absolutely not the argument I’m making. I’m pointing out that if you objectify yourself for consumption people get weird. That doesn’t make what the men do okay either—far from it—but it doesn’t make it new and it also doesn’t make it sexism. As has been said elsewhere in this thread, celebrities have been dealing with this kind of behavior since forever. Is this an outcome of making oneself in a fantasy relationship with ones viewers? Absolutely.
  - kup0 8y ago
    Not sure "this always happens so get used to it / stop complaining / don't be surprised" does anything other the blame the person getting harassed. The argument is indeed dangerously close to "you dressed immodestly so you deserve it". It's only missing the deserve sentiment, but is still roughly, "X always happens when you do Y, so it's your fault that X happens if you keep doing Y"
    - ordinaryradical 8y ago
      Because, as said elsewhere in this topic, the sexes are not coequals in sexual selection, not even close. And when someone zooms in on a peculiar dynamic like this one and says “AHA, men!” they completely miss this. This is built into the nature of sexual relationships across the genders and possibly even gender itself. What I’m talking about is descriptive, not oughts. No one ought to be harassed, but people will keep doing this because it is an outflowing of an emasculated culture. What I don’t like about your line of argument is how it infantilizes women. It’s clear just by the nature of how this medium has developed that it’s going to create unwanted or unrecriprocated sexual attention. It’s a fantasy relationship simulator. That doesn’t make harassment okay, either. But how do you police this? Are you really saying women need to be protected from the precise male gaze they are courting? How? Not only is this impractical, demonizing men or trying to frame this as a woman’s liberation issue just furthers the emasculation culture which leads to the creepy, inappropriate behavior you take issue with

dljsjr 8y ago

Are you trying to say that literally every female streamer on Twitch is "commoditizing [their] sexuality?"

Proziam 8y ago
Of course, not all of them are, but there are many who actively use Twitch to promote "premium" snapchats, or NSFW patreons. The streamers that engage in this are creating a really negative space for the female streamers who just want to use the platform without that added pressure. And it's important to understand that a large portion of the Twitch audience is quite young and impressionable.
- dljsjr 8y ago
  That's totally orthogonal to the article though, I've seen this sort of behavior from viewers in streams where the streamer didn't even have a face cam.
  - Proziam 8y ago
    Unfortunately, I can't comment without more context on that particular example. However, from my experience, I've seen a very strong correlation between the sexualization of content on the platform and the harassment on the platform as a whole. My theory, and it really is just a theory, is that the users (81.5% Males) and many under the age of 18, are "primed" to expect certain behavior or reactions due to the prevalence on the platform. This leads to these people acting like total asshats to all female streamers, even when they go out of their way to avoid any potential for sexualization.

metajack 8y ago

You are using the "she asked for it" argument to rationalize this behavior. Stop. Harassing people is wrong.

ordinaryradical 8y ago
That is absolutely not the argument I’m making. I’m pointing out that if you objectify yourself for consumption people get weird. That doesn’t make what the men do okay either—far from it—but it doesn’t make it new and it also doesn’t make it sexism. As has been said elsewhere in this thread, celebrities have been dealing with this kind of behavior since forever. Is this an outcome of making oneself in a fantasy relationship with ones viewers? Absolutely.
- kup0 8y ago
  Not sure "this always happens so get used to it / stop complaining / don't be surprised" does anything other the blame the person getting harassed. The argument is indeed dangerously close to "you dressed immodestly so you deserve it". It's only missing the deserve sentiment, but is still roughly, "X always happens when you do Y, so it's your fault that X happens if you keep doing Y"
  - ordinaryradical 8y ago
    Because, as said elsewhere in this topic, the sexes are not coequals in sexual selection, not even close. And when someone zooms in on a peculiar dynamic like this one and says “AHA, men!” they completely miss this. This is built into the nature of sexual relationships across the genders and possibly even gender itself. What I’m talking about is descriptive, not oughts. No one ought to be harassed, but people will keep doing this because it is an outflowing of an emasculated culture. What I don’t like about your line of argument is how it infantilizes women. It’s clear just by the nature of how this medium has developed that it’s going to create unwanted or unrecriprocated sexual attention. It’s a fantasy relationship simulator. That doesn’t make harassment okay, either. But how do you police this? Are you really saying women need to be protected from the precise male gaze they are courting? How? Not only is this impractical, demonizing men or trying to frame this as a woman’s liberation issue just furthers the emasculation culture which leads to the creepy, inappropriate behavior you take issue with