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I cringe when I think of how much time I spent playing games as a kid. But at least I was playing games, solving problems, getting better at something, being c

I cringe when I think of how much time I spent playing games as a kid. But at least I was playing games, solving problems, getting better at something, being challenged, and even building relationships online. I can't imagine the disappointment of having a kid addicted to watching someone else play games or live their life, nor can I imagine something as unfulfilling. Much less obsessing over the marital status of some online personality in a chat room with fellow losers. As I got older, I realized why my parents kicked me off the computer so much. I resented it as a kid the same way I resented having to spend a whole 30 minutes mowing the lawn, but I'm grateful and I can relate to their fear as parents even though I don't yet have kids.

pavel_lishin 8y ago
> I can't imagine the disappointment of having a kid addicted to watching someone else play games or live their life, nor can I imagine something as unfulfilling. I know how you feel. I'm going to be crushed if my kid likes watching baseball games on TV.
- always_good 8y ago
  Re-read the quote and notice the operative word that you changed. Also, there are a lot of hobbies I hope my kid explores before the lowest-effort mode of sitting in front of a television, like anything with an element of creativity instead of raw consumption. From my experience listening to parents on HN or parents among my friends, one of the most challenging aspects of raising children seems to be getting them to do something beyond watching a screen all day.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    That's fair. But in my defense, "addiction" never appeared in the original article, either, as far as I can tell. That's just a tangential topic you brought up.
- volkk 8y ago
  I think I see what you did there, but I don't think it's an apt comparison. Watching people compete has been done for as long as civilization has been around, and there is something not only interesting but inspiring watching certain people that are the best at what they do compete against others. Watching Twitch streams of people sitting there either putting on makeup, or some guy sitting in McDonalds eating a cheeseburger spouting memes is the ultimate form of narcissism. It doesn't develop anything positive but instead indulges the wrong aspects of people. Letting kids, who soak up everything, watch this daily is extremely poisonous and develops the wrong values.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    Twitch also features people competing in games. And people have been watching people do banal things forever as well. Plays, soap operas. Wasn't Seinfeld famously referred to as the show about nothing? What about community busy-bodies? What about birdwatchers? I do agree that there are negatives here, but you're bringing up the worst of Twitch. Of course I don't want my kid obsessions over someone who happens to have a smart phone, a twitch account, and a +2 CHA modifier. But you can't bring up the Olympics as one counterexample, and some idiot eating a burger as another. Also, what's wrong with watching someone put on make-up? Did you never watch Bob Ross paint a happy little tree?
    - volkk 8y ago
      Well I'm mostly bringing up the worst of twitch because that's what this article is focusing on. In terms of watching e-sports, that's easily comparable to watching basketball on TV. I do the same thing. What I'm bringing up is the IRL streams. If you're comparing the genius of Seinfeld to the mindnumbing garbage that you see on those streams, then I'm not sure what we're discussing here at all. I'm also not sure why I can't bring up the Olympics since your initial point is exactly just that except using baseball as an example. Watching someone put on makeup as an ASMR sort of thing like Bob Ross is also fine. You're missing the point of what I'm trying to say here. Bob Ross didn't wear skimpy clothes and share racist opinions all day on TV, either. He sat there and painted. There wasn't any romantic undertones with his viewers if they watched him long enough or paid him enough money. It's honestly crazy to me that I even have to have this argument and that this isn't objectively agreed upon.
magic_beans 8y ago
It does seem particularly depressing.

pavel_lishin 8y ago

> I can't imagine the disappointment of having a kid addicted to watching someone else play games or live their life, nor can I imagine something as unfulfilling. I know how you feel. I'm going to be crushed if my kid likes watching baseball games on TV.

always_good 8y ago
Re-read the quote and notice the operative word that you changed. Also, there are a lot of hobbies I hope my kid explores before the lowest-effort mode of sitting in front of a television, like anything with an element of creativity instead of raw consumption. From my experience listening to parents on HN or parents among my friends, one of the most challenging aspects of raising children seems to be getting them to do something beyond watching a screen all day.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  That's fair. But in my defense, "addiction" never appeared in the original article, either, as far as I can tell. That's just a tangential topic you brought up.
volkk 8y ago
I think I see what you did there, but I don't think it's an apt comparison. Watching people compete has been done for as long as civilization has been around, and there is something not only interesting but inspiring watching certain people that are the best at what they do compete against others. Watching Twitch streams of people sitting there either putting on makeup, or some guy sitting in McDonalds eating a cheeseburger spouting memes is the ultimate form of narcissism. It doesn't develop anything positive but instead indulges the wrong aspects of people. Letting kids, who soak up everything, watch this daily is extremely poisonous and develops the wrong values.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  Twitch also features people competing in games. And people have been watching people do banal things forever as well. Plays, soap operas. Wasn't Seinfeld famously referred to as the show about nothing? What about community busy-bodies? What about birdwatchers? I do agree that there are negatives here, but you're bringing up the worst of Twitch. Of course I don't want my kid obsessions over someone who happens to have a smart phone, a twitch account, and a +2 CHA modifier. But you can't bring up the Olympics as one counterexample, and some idiot eating a burger as another. Also, what's wrong with watching someone put on make-up? Did you never watch Bob Ross paint a happy little tree?
  - volkk 8y ago
    Well I'm mostly bringing up the worst of twitch because that's what this article is focusing on. In terms of watching e-sports, that's easily comparable to watching basketball on TV. I do the same thing. What I'm bringing up is the IRL streams. If you're comparing the genius of Seinfeld to the mindnumbing garbage that you see on those streams, then I'm not sure what we're discussing here at all. I'm also not sure why I can't bring up the Olympics since your initial point is exactly just that except using baseball as an example. Watching someone put on makeup as an ASMR sort of thing like Bob Ross is also fine. You're missing the point of what I'm trying to say here. Bob Ross didn't wear skimpy clothes and share racist opinions all day on TV, either. He sat there and painted. There wasn't any romantic undertones with his viewers if they watched him long enough or paid him enough money. It's honestly crazy to me that I even have to have this argument and that this isn't objectively agreed upon.

magic_beans 8y ago

It does seem particularly depressing.