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MagicLeap definitely has been overhyped, but for HN readers, there are still reasons to be cautiously optimistic that this is real progress. 1. There's a neat

MagicLeap definitely has been overhyped, but for HN readers, there are still reasons to be cautiously optimistic that this is real progress. 1. There's a neat hardware size progression for ML that was posted on Twitter: MagicLeap's gone from a device like you stare through at the optometrists office down to something comparable to a scuba mask. https://twitter.com/karanganesan/status/1024970520205307904?s=19 https://twitter.com/karanganesan/status/1024970520205307904?... 2. There are a few different ways to achieve AR style displays and what Magic Leap has chosen is the hard way -> lightfields and eye tracking (two technologies that haven't really been attempted to ship at scale). 3. This is still a developers' release - and not truly a "paradigm shift" or whatever overhyped term you want to use. Separate from all that, I still think the end game of AR (in the next 10ish years) is to be the thing that comes "next" after smartphones. The proper way to view this ML Dev kit is that it's the equivalent to a PalmPilot or other barely functional PDA that had some good ideas, but didn't quite hit the right inflection point of portability, screen, battery life, form factor, etc. but that paves the way to get there.

jamesrcole 8y ago
> MagicLeap definitely has been overhyped In HN discussions of it, it's been "over-dismissed". In my recollection, the majority of the comments viewed it as smoke and mirrors. Many were basically or even outright saying it was fraudulent. See for yourself: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=magic%20leap&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=magic%20leap&sort=byPopularity...
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  Their initial press was undoubtedly fraudulent
  - jamesrcole 8y ago
    I'm referring to things like people claiming it was like Theranos where there was no real technology at all.
    - Holomakerbot 8y ago
      Exactly. Take two minutes to look at the last popular posts about magic Leap here and it’s filled with patronizing criticism of anyone that thinks the product could either be real, not a scam, or actually good.
kirke 8y ago
I think it's important to note a few things about your second point: This version of Magic Leap's display has nothing to do with light fields. It is a wave guide optic, just like Epson Moverio, Hololens (the term holographic also implies nothing special in terms of optics, it's a wave guide display combined with perspective rendering), and almost all other see-through HMDs. Magic Leap made headlines when they teased their oscillating fiber display, which had potential to render light fields, but that has not been pursued with this release. That's not to say they won't pursue it in the future, it's just not relevant to this product. Next, eye tracking actually doesn't affect what is rendered to the display. The relationship of the headset display's field of view to the user is rigidly fixed even if your eyes move; different objects should not be rendered when moving only your eyes. Rather, eye tracking is used for contextual information and user interaction. Gaze direction could be an input to foviated rendering, or you could use your eyes to select and manipulate digital objects. Nothing I've said is meant to detract from ML's product; it's a very exciting development and a huge accomplishment for ML and the XR industry. I just think we should keep these points in context.
- michaelbuckbee 8y ago
  Thanks for clarifying, you are absolutely right, and now I feel bad for mixing this up.
  - kirke 8y ago
    Don't feel bad - it's something many many people confuse. Marketing jargon, changing production targets, and general lack of knowledge in a very technical field only exacerbate the problem.
- roywiggins 8y ago
  Builtin gaze tracking could be very good for interaction. Hololens's closest thing to a "cursor" requires you to point your entire head at an object to select it, and it feels very, very clunky.
tehsauce 8y ago
I think calling this "equivalent to a palm pilot" is a stretch. The palm pilot was an successful consumer product that was obviously useful and easily improved on. Current AR offerings like magic leap and hololens are super cool, but nothing close to useful. The fact they are labeled as "development kits" makes this pretty clear. AR/VR is going to have a much rockier road to usefulness than smartphones, which are really hard to beat.
- fsloth 8y ago
  "nothing close to useful" I disagree. Hololens is used for plenty of custom applications in the construction industry. You just don't hear about them because they are pretty much inhouse projects, likely implemented on top of unity (hence low cost and simple to deploy). Here is an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF8H_GAm8mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF8H_GAm8mM No consumer killer apps yet, that is of course true. But I wouldn't see AR in any major way in consumer space - just like you don't have HUD displays in a large category of vehicles, even though they are critical to military cockpits.
  - giobox 8y ago
    How big is 'plenty' I wonder? I see videos like this that look like fancy tech demos all the time, but I'm hesitant to claim this somehow demonstrates AR has found a meaningfully sized market in an industry. Personally, I'd put money on the number of people using HoloLens outside of dev teams in applications like this being in the low hundreds/thousands, but would love to be shown data to the contrary. Cool youtube videos unfortunately do not really indicate anything.
    - kthejoker2 8y ago
      Concur, as a Microsoft partner we had one of the first 7 Hololens. We made exactly 3 sales with it ... Of Hololens development. Though one was for a training cave that served thousands of new hires a year, so maybe one more order of magnitude in total? But it brought a ton of clients in the door, so mission accomplished.
- 8y ago
hanspragt 8y ago
> This is still a developers' release According to the article in The Verge [0], CEO Rony Abovitz says it is a “full-blown, working consumer-grade product.” [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/8/17662040/magic-leap-one-creator-edition-preview-mixed-reality-glasses-launch https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/8/17662040/magic-leap-one-cr...
- raesene9 8y ago
  it may be consumer grade but the price point is too high for a consumer product, I'd have thought (apart from a small set of pretty well off consumers)

jamesrcole 8y ago

> MagicLeap definitely has been overhyped In HN discussions of it, it's been "over-dismissed". In my recollection, the majority of the comments viewed it as smoke and mirrors. Many were basically or even outright saying it was fraudulent. See for yourself: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=magic%20leap&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=magic%20leap&sort=byPopularity...

mrguyorama 8y ago
Their initial press was undoubtedly fraudulent
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  I'm referring to things like people claiming it was like Theranos where there was no real technology at all.
  - Holomakerbot 8y ago
    Exactly. Take two minutes to look at the last popular posts about magic Leap here and it’s filled with patronizing criticism of anyone that thinks the product could either be real, not a scam, or actually good.

kirke 8y ago

I think it's important to note a few things about your second point: This version of Magic Leap's display has nothing to do with light fields. It is a wave guide optic, just like Epson Moverio, Hololens (the term holographic also implies nothing special in terms of optics, it's a wave guide display combined with perspective rendering), and almost all other see-through HMDs. Magic Leap made headlines when they teased their oscillating fiber display, which had potential to render light fields, but that has not been pursued with this release. That's not to say they won't pursue it in the future, it's just not relevant to this product. Next, eye tracking actually doesn't affect what is rendered to the display. The relationship of the headset display's field of view to the user is rigidly fixed even if your eyes move; different objects should not be rendered when moving only your eyes. Rather, eye tracking is used for contextual information and user interaction. Gaze direction could be an input to foviated rendering, or you could use your eyes to select and manipulate digital objects. Nothing I've said is meant to detract from ML's product; it's a very exciting development and a huge accomplishment for ML and the XR industry. I just think we should keep these points in context.

michaelbuckbee 8y ago
Thanks for clarifying, you are absolutely right, and now I feel bad for mixing this up.
- kirke 8y ago
  Don't feel bad - it's something many many people confuse. Marketing jargon, changing production targets, and general lack of knowledge in a very technical field only exacerbate the problem.
roywiggins 8y ago
Builtin gaze tracking could be very good for interaction. Hololens's closest thing to a "cursor" requires you to point your entire head at an object to select it, and it feels very, very clunky.

tehsauce 8y ago

I think calling this "equivalent to a palm pilot" is a stretch. The palm pilot was an successful consumer product that was obviously useful and easily improved on. Current AR offerings like magic leap and hololens are super cool, but nothing close to useful. The fact they are labeled as "development kits" makes this pretty clear. AR/VR is going to have a much rockier road to usefulness than smartphones, which are really hard to beat.

fsloth 8y ago
"nothing close to useful" I disagree. Hololens is used for plenty of custom applications in the construction industry. You just don't hear about them because they are pretty much inhouse projects, likely implemented on top of unity (hence low cost and simple to deploy). Here is an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF8H_GAm8mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF8H_GAm8mM No consumer killer apps yet, that is of course true. But I wouldn't see AR in any major way in consumer space - just like you don't have HUD displays in a large category of vehicles, even though they are critical to military cockpits.
- giobox 8y ago
  How big is 'plenty' I wonder? I see videos like this that look like fancy tech demos all the time, but I'm hesitant to claim this somehow demonstrates AR has found a meaningfully sized market in an industry. Personally, I'd put money on the number of people using HoloLens outside of dev teams in applications like this being in the low hundreds/thousands, but would love to be shown data to the contrary. Cool youtube videos unfortunately do not really indicate anything.
  - kthejoker2 8y ago
    Concur, as a Microsoft partner we had one of the first 7 Hololens. We made exactly 3 sales with it ... Of Hololens development. Though one was for a training cave that served thousands of new hires a year, so maybe one more order of magnitude in total? But it brought a ton of clients in the door, so mission accomplished.
8y ago

hanspragt 8y ago

> This is still a developers' release According to the article in The Verge [0], CEO Rony Abovitz says it is a “full-blown, working consumer-grade product.” [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/8/17662040/magic-leap-one-creator-edition-preview-mixed-reality-glasses-launch https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/8/17662040/magic-leap-one-cr...

raesene9 8y ago
it may be consumer grade but the price point is too high for a consumer product, I'd have thought (apart from a small set of pretty well off consumers)