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While we've all come across these kinds of clients and it is probably in our best interest not to become involved in a working relationship with these clients,

While we've all come across these kinds of clients and it is probably in our best interest not to become involved in a working relationship with these clients, I disagree with his classification of them being 'evil' and 'douchebags'. I've found that many of these individuals are just naive to the effort involved in taking their (website|product|application|widget) from an idea to a tangible working product. They are able to envision 'something' in their minds, and because they are able to do that they consider the job at least partially done. Many of them have never done our jobs, and even those that have probably fall at the long tail end of the hockey stick and can't appreciate the difference between someone that learned HTML in 24 hours and someone who can create a design that creates value to their product (same goes for us backend folks). If someone says to me 'I'd like to build X, and my budget is Y, and my timeline is Z' and they're not completely obnoxious in their approach, it's not very difficult to have a conversation with this individual, ask a few questions, and get a better understanding of what 'X' really is and how 'Z' came to be (assuming Y is either non-negotiable or you don't have the experience to know what you're worth). You might find that this individual isn't even aware that a product (yes I'm mostly talking web properties here) can be broken down into pieces to fit into a continuous timeline, where those smaller pieces are easier to manage and deliver on. With all this in mind, I've avoided doing consultancy work for the better part of the past 6 years because I got worn out at the time of dealing with what the OP had described about. After 6 years, I have learned a lot more about myself and have acquired soft skills that I didn't have before (and learned from a great PM). Those 6 years have also helped me realize that humility, when used properly, can help distinguish between the arrogant and the naive client.

eru 16y ago
And the naivety works the other way, too. I had a friend who organized big company events, setting up sound systems, light, hiring catering, and musicians, getting an ice castle for the lobby, such things. Clients had absolutely no ability to gauge what stuff should cost. So the company overcharged heavily on a lot of technical stuff (like renting out lights or speakers), but could offer a supreme service. (One other `trick' was to make sure that their hired hands always wore suits, did not smoke, and looked respectable in general. They hired the same students as anybody else, but could charge much more for their work.)
- dolinsky 16y ago
  Without a doubt your 'appearance' can go a long way towards dictating your rate. Your appearance can be comprised of: - How you dress - The language you use - The presentation of your proposal - Once you have the gig, the manner in which you conduct business It's no secret that if you want to charge more than your competitors, one of the best ways to do so is to build an image that compliments that idea.
  - eru 16y ago
    Yes. And the clients where happy with them, because they also went the extra mile and gave top-notch service for the whole event (and not only dumping some equipment on them) --- but they charged a top-notch price, too. (And on of they ways to charge the high price was not too charge a high price only for the staff that really matters and costs, but may not be visible to the client beforehand---but they charged a lot for the stuff where the naive client can _imagine_ that it's expensive. If they did not offer the high quality in the rest of what they did, this would have been a rip-off, but it turned to be more of a cross-subsidy. (And since they only sell packages anyway, it does not really matter, how the invoice explains the high fees.))

eru 16y ago

And the naivety works the other way, too. I had a friend who organized big company events, setting up sound systems, light, hiring catering, and musicians, getting an ice castle for the lobby, such things. Clients had absolutely no ability to gauge what stuff should cost. So the company overcharged heavily on a lot of technical stuff (like renting out lights or speakers), but could offer a supreme service. (One other `trick' was to make sure that their hired hands always wore suits, did not smoke, and looked respectable in general. They hired the same students as anybody else, but could charge much more for their work.)

dolinsky 16y ago
Without a doubt your 'appearance' can go a long way towards dictating your rate. Your appearance can be comprised of: - How you dress - The language you use - The presentation of your proposal - Once you have the gig, the manner in which you conduct business It's no secret that if you want to charge more than your competitors, one of the best ways to do so is to build an image that compliments that idea.
- eru 16y ago
  Yes. And the clients where happy with them, because they also went the extra mile and gave top-notch service for the whole event (and not only dumping some equipment on them) --- but they charged a top-notch price, too. (And on of they ways to charge the high price was not too charge a high price only for the staff that really matters and costs, but may not be visible to the client beforehand---but they charged a lot for the stuff where the naive client can _imagine_ that it's expensive. If they did not offer the high quality in the rest of what they did, this would have been a rip-off, but it turned to be more of a cross-subsidy. (And since they only sell packages anyway, it does not really matter, how the invoice explains the high fees.))