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Exams are testing the ability to work under pressure. Giving students 15 minutes extra only changes the degree of pressure. The previous time given isn't a "neu

Exams are testing the ability to work under pressure. Giving students 15 minutes extra only changes the degree of pressure. The previous time given isn't a "neutral" point. How much of an advantage in terms of exam results _should_ people who can work under high pressure have? The pressures STEM employees face at work are usually very different from exam pressure, so I would lean towards "very little" as the answer to that question.

close04 8y ago
The pressure is to finish in a tight deadline. Whether an exam or a delivery date. I'm sorry, as a STEM graduate working in the field for a long time, saying that being able to work under pressure is not important strikes me as very odd. Working under pressure is a skill that cannot be replaced or compensated. You can't borrow it, you can't google it, and it's pretty damn hard to acquire. So the 15 extra minutes one receives for an exam today might turn into 15 extra hours for a project task tomorrow. Everything about academic studies is an arbitrary "neutral point". The quantity of information for one topic, the difficultly of the exam, the time allotted. It's exactly like saying that you don't actually need to show all that knowledge during the exam since Wolfram Alpha can do that for you. And in real life deadlines are no longer like an arbitrary exam time or even a standardized interview test. They're usually as tight as the best people on your team can afford. That becomes the "neutral point". And that's when it will matter that two people that previously looked equal start performing differently. An exam tests you for a lot of things and they just lessened one. Which isn't in itself a necessarily bad thing if it didn't give ammo to every person claiming that men are better at STEM. Now their bias is backed by universities so good luck fighting it. *Just highlighting again that this is discussing the "increased exam time" topic, not the "let's change results to exclude women" topic.
- Firadeoclus 8y ago
  I've also been working in the STEM field for a long time, and from my own experience deadlines of hours are rare. Deadlines of days and longer are both psychologically and logistically very different. It is not at all given that someone who can sprint well is a good mid-distance or long-distance runner. > It's exactly like saying that you don't actually need to show all that knowledge during the exam since Wolfram Alpha can do that for you. I don't get how this is at all equivalent. Could you please clarify?
  - close04 8y ago
    I wasn't really thinking of deadline in hours, more like how many extra man-hours/days one would need. If you need more time than the next guy to finish your exam because pressure affects you, when you start working you may end up needing 2 more man-days (15 extra hours) for a task that the other guy can finish on time. Almost all deadlines are set around what your best people can achieve. Not being able to work under pressure will be obvious sooner or later unless you pick a job with very soft and flexible deadlines. And I'm not even touching the situations where it could be a matter of life and death and you have to fix it now. > I don't get how this is at all equivalent. Could you please clarify? I was referring to this: > The pressures STEM employees face at work are usually very different from exam pressure, so I would lean towards "very little" as the answer to that question. Exams rely on a lot of memorizing which can easily be replaced by Google and WA and is not a reflection of how you will do real work so why test that "knowledge"? The pressure to properly allot time to every question and finish in the exam in time after providing all or most of the solutions is an ability to work under pressure perfectly equivalent to the one you feel doing a task at work. You can't replace the working under pressure skill with almost anything else. You have to know if those future engineers can do it fast and well even under pressure. Lessening one burden is no different from lessening the other. And when you do it for the benefit of a single group it can't not feel like it's strengthening arguments that some people need help to get through STEM. That's the last thing women in STEM need, having to fight yet another prejudice.
    - Firadeoclus 8y ago
      "Being able to work under pressure" is not a binary skill that you either have or don't have. Pressure comes in various forms and your ability to cope depends on many environmental factors. I have some experience with working to tight deadlines, and it never felt particularly similar to taking an exam. So I would challenge the idea that they're equivalent. A being a better sprinter than B neither means B can't work under pressure nor that B is the worse mid-distance runner. The same is true for mental tasks.

close04 8y ago

The pressure is to finish in a tight deadline. Whether an exam or a delivery date. I'm sorry, as a STEM graduate working in the field for a long time, saying that being able to work under pressure is not important strikes me as very odd. Working under pressure is a skill that cannot be replaced or compensated. You can't borrow it, you can't google it, and it's pretty damn hard to acquire. So the 15 extra minutes one receives for an exam today might turn into 15 extra hours for a project task tomorrow. Everything about academic studies is an arbitrary "neutral point". The quantity of information for one topic, the difficultly of the exam, the time allotted. It's exactly like saying that you don't actually need to show all that knowledge during the exam since Wolfram Alpha can do that for you. And in real life deadlines are no longer like an arbitrary exam time or even a standardized interview test. They're usually as tight as the best people on your team can afford. That becomes the "neutral point". And that's when it will matter that two people that previously looked equal start performing differently. An exam tests you for a lot of things and they just lessened one. Which isn't in itself a necessarily bad thing if it didn't give ammo to every person claiming that men are better at STEM. Now their bias is backed by universities so good luck fighting it. *Just highlighting again that this is discussing the "increased exam time" topic, not the "let's change results to exclude women" topic.

Firadeoclus 8y ago
I've also been working in the STEM field for a long time, and from my own experience deadlines of hours are rare. Deadlines of days and longer are both psychologically and logistically very different. It is not at all given that someone who can sprint well is a good mid-distance or long-distance runner. > It's exactly like saying that you don't actually need to show all that knowledge during the exam since Wolfram Alpha can do that for you. I don't get how this is at all equivalent. Could you please clarify?
- close04 8y ago
  I wasn't really thinking of deadline in hours, more like how many extra man-hours/days one would need. If you need more time than the next guy to finish your exam because pressure affects you, when you start working you may end up needing 2 more man-days (15 extra hours) for a task that the other guy can finish on time. Almost all deadlines are set around what your best people can achieve. Not being able to work under pressure will be obvious sooner or later unless you pick a job with very soft and flexible deadlines. And I'm not even touching the situations where it could be a matter of life and death and you have to fix it now. > I don't get how this is at all equivalent. Could you please clarify? I was referring to this: > The pressures STEM employees face at work are usually very different from exam pressure, so I would lean towards "very little" as the answer to that question. Exams rely on a lot of memorizing which can easily be replaced by Google and WA and is not a reflection of how you will do real work so why test that "knowledge"? The pressure to properly allot time to every question and finish in the exam in time after providing all or most of the solutions is an ability to work under pressure perfectly equivalent to the one you feel doing a task at work. You can't replace the working under pressure skill with almost anything else. You have to know if those future engineers can do it fast and well even under pressure. Lessening one burden is no different from lessening the other. And when you do it for the benefit of a single group it can't not feel like it's strengthening arguments that some people need help to get through STEM. That's the last thing women in STEM need, having to fight yet another prejudice.
  - Firadeoclus 8y ago
    "Being able to work under pressure" is not a binary skill that you either have or don't have. Pressure comes in various forms and your ability to cope depends on many environmental factors. I have some experience with working to tight deadlines, and it never felt particularly similar to taking an exam. So I would challenge the idea that they're equivalent. A being a better sprinter than B neither means B can't work under pressure nor that B is the worse mid-distance runner. The same is true for mental tasks.