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The viewpoint that college is a place for vocational education seems to be a very common viewpoint here on HN, a similar viewpoint seems to be that it's normal

The viewpoint that college is a place for vocational education seems to be a very common viewpoint here on HN, a similar viewpoint seems to be that it's normal and easy to pack your life up and relocate so XYZ city because cost of living is low and wages are high, or some other reason. I guess being a tech-centred community this is to be expected. I don't know about others, but for me university was an important experience as a place where I could grow as a person. It's a time where you get a few years to figure it all out before you spend the next 45 years working. Even if I could've done a 1 year course and then jumped straight into working full time, I wouldn't want to do that, and I don't think people should necessarily do that. There's more to life than getting a good qualification and getting a job that pays well. I earn more than practically everybody in my friend group, yet I'm no happier than they are. I'm not more fulfilled in my life because I have a piece of paper that says I'm good with computers.

sadamznintern 8y ago
The idea that college is a place to find yourself is mostly a statement of immense privilege. I grew up upper middle class (professional parents with masters) and I didn’t spend a moment in college finding myself, I spent most of it working or networking or sleeping. My folks paid for my CS degree from a state school, but even looking at the opportunity cost I’m not sure if anybody but the already wealthy or those at elite institutions can use 4 years to do anything but try to make $180k out of college - and despite all my efforts I failed at that. > no happier The other side isn’t better. I make less than most of my friends and they, by virtue of independent wealth or higher income or elite status, are significantly happier than me.
- projektir 8y ago
  Something is wrong with your analysis. Lots of below upper middle class folks report "finding themselves" in college, and most people don't earn $180k out of college regardless. > I make less than most of my friends and they, by virtue of independent wealth or higher income or elite status, are significantly happier than me. I'm not really in the "money is irrelevant" bucket but this doesn't look like a monetary problem you're facing here. Seems like you overtuned things and hit a lot of diminishing returns, where you worked hard but didn't see much for it, but now you assume people who work less hard have seen even less, but that's not actually always the case because well we are told the world is unfair quite often, yet in cases like work we for some reason decide not to believe it.
  - sadamznintern 8y ago
    > Seems like you overtuned things and hit a lot of diminishing returns, where you worked hard but didn't see much for it, but now you assume people who work less hard have seen even less I know for a fact people who have worked less hard have more...but again, mostly at better schools, or have wealthier backgrounds or are just plain luckier than me. I guess the real problem is I'm still a failure no matter how much effort I put in.
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      I don't want to sound like some bullshit life coach, but are you really a failure, or are you just measuring success wrong?
      - sadamznintern 8y ago
        Probably both. I"m just angry that I had to work hard for [relatively] little when I could have just done nothing for 4 years and been in the same spot or better.
- dagw 8y ago
  I make more than most of my friends and while it certainly makes my life a lot easier than theirs, it doesn't make me happier than them.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  Maybe it's different in the USA, but in New Zealand, in between my student loan and a part time job, I was able to get by just fine. Everyone else I know was in the same situation. We spent 4 years partying, hanging out, and having a good time. I'm aware that it is a position of privilege to be able to say that university is a place to find yourself, but it's not a position of immense privilege at all in New Zealand, or most of the western world for that matter. These days, I earn enough that I generally don't worry about money. I check my bank balance on payday to see how much I've got, and don't worry about it for the next month. I'm no happier than I was when I had to check my balance every time I went to the shops, when I had $5 to last me 2 days to payday. Sure, I'm less stressed, but I'm not happier.
feverfew 8y ago
I personally found that 13 (5-18) whole years of education was more than enough time to determine, at least academically, what I wanted to do in life. If you want to 'find yourself' take a gap year and do some self-study or self-reflection, without paying the inflated fees. Heck you can do a degree and still attend lectures in a different course even if you are not enrolled, if you seek to broaden your horizons. Did you need the university framework to grow as a person, or maybe it was the independence, that allowed that growth?
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  Academically I knew what I wanted to do when I finished high school. I wanted to be a software engineer, and I became one. It sound super fucking corny, but when I left home at 18, I didn't really know who I was as a person. University really helped me find that. It's not just the independence, but the fact that at university you have a lot of free time, and you have a lot of opportunities to meet and interact with people from different backgrounds, who have different interests to you. I don't want to spend my days hanging out with a bunch of software engineers. I'm actually proud of the fact that in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who's a software engineer. I actually hate talking about software or computers outside of work, I spend 40+ hours a week doing that shit, I want to do anything that doesn't involve software engineering for the other 128 hours of the week.
  - randomdata 8y ago
    > I'm actually proud of the fact that in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who's a software engineer. Would you only know software engineers if you hadn't gone to university? I did not attend university and did not know another software engineer (outside of interacting with some online like on HN) until about 15 years into my career when a good friend started dating one. It does not really seem like the norm to only know software engineers. We're a pretty small segment of the population (~0.8% of the workforce).
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      The fact that my friends aren't software engineers is a bit tangental to the fact that I went to university, as I moved country recently and had to build a new circle of friends. But I do know people who's entire circle of friends is programmers and tech people. I guess if they're happy, then they're happy, but it's not for me. I enjoy my job, but there are other things I enjoy more.
kermittd 8y ago
Fair point about your experience but at the same time some people hate(ed) their formal educational experience and/or had to work constantly through college.

sadamznintern 8y ago

The idea that college is a place to find yourself is mostly a statement of immense privilege. I grew up upper middle class (professional parents with masters) and I didn’t spend a moment in college finding myself, I spent most of it working or networking or sleeping. My folks paid for my CS degree from a state school, but even looking at the opportunity cost I’m not sure if anybody but the already wealthy or those at elite institutions can use 4 years to do anything but try to make $180k out of college - and despite all my efforts I failed at that. > no happier The other side isn’t better. I make less than most of my friends and they, by virtue of independent wealth or higher income or elite status, are significantly happier than me.

projektir 8y ago
Something is wrong with your analysis. Lots of below upper middle class folks report "finding themselves" in college, and most people don't earn $180k out of college regardless. > I make less than most of my friends and they, by virtue of independent wealth or higher income or elite status, are significantly happier than me. I'm not really in the "money is irrelevant" bucket but this doesn't look like a monetary problem you're facing here. Seems like you overtuned things and hit a lot of diminishing returns, where you worked hard but didn't see much for it, but now you assume people who work less hard have seen even less, but that's not actually always the case because well we are told the world is unfair quite often, yet in cases like work we for some reason decide not to believe it.
- sadamznintern 8y ago
  > Seems like you overtuned things and hit a lot of diminishing returns, where you worked hard but didn't see much for it, but now you assume people who work less hard have seen even less I know for a fact people who have worked less hard have more...but again, mostly at better schools, or have wealthier backgrounds or are just plain luckier than me. I guess the real problem is I'm still a failure no matter how much effort I put in.
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    I don't want to sound like some bullshit life coach, but are you really a failure, or are you just measuring success wrong?
    - sadamznintern 8y ago
      Probably both. I"m just angry that I had to work hard for [relatively] little when I could have just done nothing for 4 years and been in the same spot or better.
dagw 8y ago
I make more than most of my friends and while it certainly makes my life a lot easier than theirs, it doesn't make me happier than them.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Maybe it's different in the USA, but in New Zealand, in between my student loan and a part time job, I was able to get by just fine. Everyone else I know was in the same situation. We spent 4 years partying, hanging out, and having a good time. I'm aware that it is a position of privilege to be able to say that university is a place to find yourself, but it's not a position of immense privilege at all in New Zealand, or most of the western world for that matter. These days, I earn enough that I generally don't worry about money. I check my bank balance on payday to see how much I've got, and don't worry about it for the next month. I'm no happier than I was when I had to check my balance every time I went to the shops, when I had $5 to last me 2 days to payday. Sure, I'm less stressed, but I'm not happier.

feverfew 8y ago

I personally found that 13 (5-18) whole years of education was more than enough time to determine, at least academically, what I wanted to do in life. If you want to 'find yourself' take a gap year and do some self-study or self-reflection, without paying the inflated fees. Heck you can do a degree and still attend lectures in a different course even if you are not enrolled, if you seek to broaden your horizons. Did you need the university framework to grow as a person, or maybe it was the independence, that allowed that growth?

toomanybeersies 8y ago
Academically I knew what I wanted to do when I finished high school. I wanted to be a software engineer, and I became one. It sound super fucking corny, but when I left home at 18, I didn't really know who I was as a person. University really helped me find that. It's not just the independence, but the fact that at university you have a lot of free time, and you have a lot of opportunities to meet and interact with people from different backgrounds, who have different interests to you. I don't want to spend my days hanging out with a bunch of software engineers. I'm actually proud of the fact that in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who's a software engineer. I actually hate talking about software or computers outside of work, I spend 40+ hours a week doing that shit, I want to do anything that doesn't involve software engineering for the other 128 hours of the week.
- randomdata 8y ago
  > I'm actually proud of the fact that in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who's a software engineer. Would you only know software engineers if you hadn't gone to university? I did not attend university and did not know another software engineer (outside of interacting with some online like on HN) until about 15 years into my career when a good friend started dating one. It does not really seem like the norm to only know software engineers. We're a pretty small segment of the population (~0.8% of the workforce).
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    The fact that my friends aren't software engineers is a bit tangental to the fact that I went to university, as I moved country recently and had to build a new circle of friends. But I do know people who's entire circle of friends is programmers and tech people. I guess if they're happy, then they're happy, but it's not for me. I enjoy my job, but there are other things I enjoy more.

kermittd 8y ago

Fair point about your experience but at the same time some people hate(ed) their formal educational experience and/or had to work constantly through college.