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As someone who spent a number of years doing free tutoring for CS classes (i.e. the kind where you can't choose who is coming in to see you), I strongly disagre

As someone who spent a number of years doing free tutoring for CS classes (i.e. the kind where you can't choose who is coming in to see you), I strongly disagree with this. Yes, there were students who started and ended the quarter hopelessly overwhelmed. But there were also students who through determination and hard work and lots and lots of help managed to dig themselves out of that hole. Many of those students would not have "succeeded anyways", they succeeded specifically because of the help they got. If you mean to say that they succeed because of their willingness to ask for (and make use of) help, then sure. But your original comment makes it sound like you're tossing them into the same bucket as the students who never need to show up for help in the first place, which is absolutely unwarranted.

RobertRoberts 8y ago
>"If you mean to say that they succeed because of their willingness to ask for (and make use of) help, then sure." Yes, this is exactly what I mean. Success often requires asking for help. Countless times I tried to help students that really didn't seem to care too much, they just wanted to get through the class. (it was required for the degree) But I regretted splitting my time equally with people that just wanted to eek their way through, when they didn't even care, and didn't really need my help to pass, just to get a better grade. Where as I wish I had devoted more effort/time towards students that really wanted to excel, even if their skills weren't great, or their talent was near non-existant. The students that had a drive and need to learn, but still needed help, were the ones that succeeded. Half the students were there for unknown reasons and would play games in class. Try and tell me how much I should care that they have run out of time to get their projects done at the last minute? It's better for them to fail than to get shoe-horned into the next class because I helped them maintain their last minute freakout sessions. This did not help them succeed at school or life.
- EADGBE 8y ago
  > Half the students were there for unknown reasons and would play games in class. I think this is an example of why college isn't for everyone; and if it is for everyone, not all at the same time. These people are literally there because they're scared (or, rather ingrained) to think about where else they should be.

RobertRoberts 8y ago

>"If you mean to say that they succeed because of their willingness to ask for (and make use of) help, then sure." Yes, this is exactly what I mean. Success often requires asking for help. Countless times I tried to help students that really didn't seem to care too much, they just wanted to get through the class. (it was required for the degree) But I regretted splitting my time equally with people that just wanted to eek their way through, when they didn't even care, and didn't really need my help to pass, just to get a better grade. Where as I wish I had devoted more effort/time towards students that really wanted to excel, even if their skills weren't great, or their talent was near non-existant. The students that had a drive and need to learn, but still needed help, were the ones that succeeded. Half the students were there for unknown reasons and would play games in class. Try and tell me how much I should care that they have run out of time to get their projects done at the last minute? It's better for them to fail than to get shoe-horned into the next class because I helped them maintain their last minute freakout sessions. This did not help them succeed at school or life.

EADGBE 8y ago
> Half the students were there for unknown reasons and would play games in class. I think this is an example of why college isn't for everyone; and if it is for everyone, not all at the same time. These people are literally there because they're scared (or, rather ingrained) to think about where else they should be.