4 ms·

First stop blaming the Russians and then tell your parties to work for the country and for themselves. I think best would be if people stopped calling themsel

First stop blaming the Russians and then tell your parties to work for the country and for themselves. I think best would be if people stopped calling themselves "Republicans" or "Democrats" and stopped identifying with a party.

mikec3010 8y ago
I wish there were a way to dispel the tricks the media and politicians use to divide us such as religion and abortion. There are countless other issues that affect us, but many voters only care about 1 or 2 issues. The "polarizing issues" are then just proxies that won't have a material effect on most people anyway. But people are so susceptible to emotion, and I doubt there's a way around this.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> First stop blaming the Russians No, not going to stop blaming the guilty, including the Russians. > and then tell your parties to work for the country and for themselves. I've found that politicians in both major parties have the second part down pretty pat, so I’m more concerned with the first. > I think best would be if people stopped calling themselves "Republicans" or "Democrats" and stopped identifying with a party. I think it would best if people learned that—whether it's a country or a party—identifying with a group doesn't mean uncritical acceptance of everything done by the group, it's leaders, etc. OTOH, I see no reason for people not to identify with the major party that best represents them, given the nature of our political system, even if they are both trying to reform that party and the underlying system.
- crazynick4 8y ago
  It would be more accurate to say 'the Russian government and affiliated parties' (or just 'Russian government', if you're into the whole brevity thing). Most Russians don't care what happens with American politics. We don't blame 'the Arabs' for 9/11, right?
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > It would be more accurate to say 'the Russian government and affiliated parties' (or just 'Russian government', if you're into the whole brevity thing). I was taking, based on what seemed to me to be exquisitely clear contextual clues, “the Russians” in the post I was responding to as “the Russians to whom blame has widely been attached”, who, yes, are the Russian government and certain regime-linked business figures. “Stop blaming the Russians”, it seems to me, makes clear that the focus is those Russians who are currently being blamed, which is not the Russian population in general.
    - crazynick4 8y ago
      > “Stop blaming the Russians”, it seems to me, makes clear that the focus is those Russians who are currently being blamed Yes, if you were to stop and think about it, this is the intended meaning. However, when people constantly hear 'The Russians' repeated over and over..
  - handelaar 8y ago
    #notallrussians is an argument (like #notallmen) that contributes nothing to anyone because nobody has at any point said "literally all Russians". You're bringing nothing but noise.
    - crazynick4 8y ago
      You don't have to say it explicitly in order to carry the connotation across.
      - EpicEng 8y ago
        Except no one actually believes it's "all Russians". Everyone knows "the Russians" means "the Russian government". So yeah, just noise.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    That's pretty pedantic. With "Russians" it's pretty clear in this context that it means the government. When somebody in another country complains about Americans it's most likely about the government and not all people. If 9/11 had been planned by a government we would also say the "Iraqis" and not the "Iraqi government".
- paulddraper 8y ago
  > No, not going to stop blaming the guilty, including the Russians. Sure, but you're blaming the drop in the bucket.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "I see no reason for people not to identify with the major party that best represents them," But they have to keep their party accountable. I see it so many times that people complain about something when the other party is in party and as soon as their party has the power it's perfectly fine. Sometimes this reminds me of "Doublethink" in 1984.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > But they have to keep their party accountable That's basically what I said in the sentence before the one you quoted to respond to.

mikec3010 8y ago

I wish there were a way to dispel the tricks the media and politicians use to divide us such as religion and abortion. There are countless other issues that affect us, but many voters only care about 1 or 2 issues. The "polarizing issues" are then just proxies that won't have a material effect on most people anyway. But people are so susceptible to emotion, and I doubt there's a way around this.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> First stop blaming the Russians No, not going to stop blaming the guilty, including the Russians. > and then tell your parties to work for the country and for themselves. I've found that politicians in both major parties have the second part down pretty pat, so I’m more concerned with the first. > I think best would be if people stopped calling themselves "Republicans" or "Democrats" and stopped identifying with a party. I think it would best if people learned that—whether it's a country or a party—identifying with a group doesn't mean uncritical acceptance of everything done by the group, it's leaders, etc. OTOH, I see no reason for people not to identify with the major party that best represents them, given the nature of our political system, even if they are both trying to reform that party and the underlying system.

crazynick4 8y ago
It would be more accurate to say 'the Russian government and affiliated parties' (or just 'Russian government', if you're into the whole brevity thing). Most Russians don't care what happens with American politics. We don't blame 'the Arabs' for 9/11, right?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > It would be more accurate to say 'the Russian government and affiliated parties' (or just 'Russian government', if you're into the whole brevity thing). I was taking, based on what seemed to me to be exquisitely clear contextual clues, “the Russians” in the post I was responding to as “the Russians to whom blame has widely been attached”, who, yes, are the Russian government and certain regime-linked business figures. “Stop blaming the Russians”, it seems to me, makes clear that the focus is those Russians who are currently being blamed, which is not the Russian population in general.
  - crazynick4 8y ago
    > “Stop blaming the Russians”, it seems to me, makes clear that the focus is those Russians who are currently being blamed Yes, if you were to stop and think about it, this is the intended meaning. However, when people constantly hear 'The Russians' repeated over and over..
- handelaar 8y ago
  #notallrussians is an argument (like #notallmen) that contributes nothing to anyone because nobody has at any point said "literally all Russians". You're bringing nothing but noise.
  - crazynick4 8y ago
    You don't have to say it explicitly in order to carry the connotation across.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      Except no one actually believes it's "all Russians". Everyone knows "the Russians" means "the Russian government". So yeah, just noise.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  That's pretty pedantic. With "Russians" it's pretty clear in this context that it means the government. When somebody in another country complains about Americans it's most likely about the government and not all people. If 9/11 had been planned by a government we would also say the "Iraqis" and not the "Iraqi government".
paulddraper 8y ago
> No, not going to stop blaming the guilty, including the Russians. Sure, but you're blaming the drop in the bucket.
maxxxxx 8y ago
"I see no reason for people not to identify with the major party that best represents them," But they have to keep their party accountable. I see it so many times that people complain about something when the other party is in party and as soon as their party has the power it's perfectly fine. Sometimes this reminds me of "Doublethink" in 1984.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > But they have to keep their party accountable That's basically what I said in the sentence before the one you quoted to respond to.