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Chargers have been getting noticeably more busy over the last year (bay area). It's pretty absurd at this point that we are relying on private companies like Wh

Chargers have been getting noticeably more busy over the last year (bay area). It's pretty absurd at this point that we are relying on private companies like Whole Foods to build public transportation infrastructure. The state really needs to get on top of this and start building out more level 3.

lazerpants 8y ago
>It's pretty absurd at this point that we are relying on private companies like Whole Foods to build public transportation infrastructure. Most (maybe all?) gas stations are privately owned, how is this different?
- chc 8y ago
  Probably because gas stations and EV chargers have very different logistics and modalities. For example, you could realistically put an electrical outlet by every parking space, but doing that with gas pumps would be completely untenable.
  - repsilat 8y ago
    I know this was just an example of how they're different, but this particular feature should make EV chargers easier for the market to supply relative to gas stations.
  - pastage 8y ago
    Each car in a city requires alot of parking spaces I've read 4-10 empty parking spaces per car. This would mean that every car owner would need to pay for that many charging stations.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    A gas pump by every parking spot is probably easier at scale. Manufacturing costs would scale down significantly, and a plastic gas pipe is cheaper than a copper wire. We don't do it because a gas car refuels fast enough that you don't need it.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      How about the cost for the nozzle, the pump, and all the safety equipment you need to stop an oopsie from turning into a kaboom?
      - lgats 8y ago
        Let's not forget vapor recovery systems for all these gas spickets in California
    - outworlder 8y ago
      Yeah, we can have a pump. And a gas pipe. But they do not make fuel. Did you forget the massive underground fuel tank though? Or even worse, gasoline pipes? We just need a 220v outlet. That's it. The charging station is welcome but EV owners already carry their own (not all support 220v but that's an easy fix)
      - bluGill 8y ago
        "just a 220 outlet" is not easy. It is a 220 outlet, but we also need large wires to each outlet.
prostoalex 8y ago
So far they've preferred providing incentives through tax policy - worked for residential solar installations. The land in popular destinations (shopping plazas, malls, large corporate offices) is privately or municipally owned, the state cannot just barge in. This is a good list of current California incentives https://www.chargepoint.com/products/station-incentives/ https://www.chargepoint.com/products/station-incentives/
cbhl 8y ago
Government hasn't historically been the one building parking spots. See the history around mandatory parking minimums, like from this video from Vox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm7ik-H_7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm7ik-H_7U
tomcam 8y ago
So... force non-EV owners to subsidize your driving choice?

lazerpants 8y ago

>It's pretty absurd at this point that we are relying on private companies like Whole Foods to build public transportation infrastructure. Most (maybe all?) gas stations are privately owned, how is this different?

chc 8y ago
Probably because gas stations and EV chargers have very different logistics and modalities. For example, you could realistically put an electrical outlet by every parking space, but doing that with gas pumps would be completely untenable.
- repsilat 8y ago
  I know this was just an example of how they're different, but this particular feature should make EV chargers easier for the market to supply relative to gas stations.
- pastage 8y ago
  Each car in a city requires alot of parking spaces I've read 4-10 empty parking spaces per car. This would mean that every car owner would need to pay for that many charging stations.
- bluGill 8y ago
  A gas pump by every parking spot is probably easier at scale. Manufacturing costs would scale down significantly, and a plastic gas pipe is cheaper than a copper wire. We don't do it because a gas car refuels fast enough that you don't need it.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    How about the cost for the nozzle, the pump, and all the safety equipment you need to stop an oopsie from turning into a kaboom?
    - lgats 8y ago
      Let's not forget vapor recovery systems for all these gas spickets in California
  - outworlder 8y ago
    Yeah, we can have a pump. And a gas pipe. But they do not make fuel. Did you forget the massive underground fuel tank though? Or even worse, gasoline pipes? We just need a 220v outlet. That's it. The charging station is welcome but EV owners already carry their own (not all support 220v but that's an easy fix)
    - bluGill 8y ago
      "just a 220 outlet" is not easy. It is a 220 outlet, but we also need large wires to each outlet.

prostoalex 8y ago

So far they've preferred providing incentives through tax policy - worked for residential solar installations. The land in popular destinations (shopping plazas, malls, large corporate offices) is privately or municipally owned, the state cannot just barge in. This is a good list of current California incentives https://www.chargepoint.com/products/station-incentives/ https://www.chargepoint.com/products/station-incentives/

cbhl 8y ago

Government hasn't historically been the one building parking spots. See the history around mandatory parking minimums, like from this video from Vox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm7ik-H_7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm7ik-H_7U

tomcam 8y ago

So... force non-EV owners to subsidize your driving choice?