6 ms·

Isn't SpaceX success due to the fact that most of its orders come from the US government while Tesla has to compete in the free market and isn't that successful

Isn't SpaceX success due to the fact that most of its orders come from the US government while Tesla has to compete in the free market and isn't that successful there?

mmanfrin 8y ago
isn't that successful there? What?
- SheinhardtWigCo 8y ago
  “Hasn’t yet made any money there” would be more accurate.
- delinka 8y ago
  >...isn't all that successful in the free market? That's the intended question. Though I don't know what GP's definition of "success" is.
Johnny555 8y ago
That may be true, but the stability comes from it being privately held -- the SpaceX stock doesn't swing wildly every time some news about their competition with Boeing is released.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Boeing is publicly traded under the ticker BA...
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    I meant the SpaceX stock doesn't swing wildly every time news like this comes out: https://www.investopedia.com/news/spacex-will-fly-astronauts-boeing-nasa/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/spacex-will-fly-astronauts... Or this: https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/nasa-commercial-crew-analysis-finds-boeing-slightly-ahead-of-spacex/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/nasa-commercial-crew... (I clarified my original comment)
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      SpaceX is privately held, unlike Tesla.
      - Johnny555 8y ago
        Yes, that's the point.
- microtherion 8y ago
  A profitable company has no need to be excessively concerned about its stock price. Of course, at some point, shareholders might consider putting on pressure, but that doesn't really seem to have happened even with Tesla. And in closely held companies, that kind of pressure is much stronger — it's not like Musk has $70B of spare change in his couch pillows, so he'll always have to deal with co-owners.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    Most importantly, the co-owners are less likely to ask why a particular step to maximize profits in this quarter hasn't been done. To say nothing of activist shareholders who theoretically could sue; such things killed a few still-profitable companies, and Tesla isn't one yet.
Voloskaya 8y ago
> and isn't that successful there? Having 2 years worth of production in the backlog is not successful? Ok then.
Diederich 8y ago
NASA certainly did save SpaceX early on with some funding and contracts, which SpaceX fully delivered on at a competitive price. I'm not going to look it up right now, but for now and the past several years, most of SpaceX's income has come from sources outside of NASA. That is, commercial launches.
gameswithgo 8y ago
The free market of automobile manufacturing in which the USA has propped up both GM and Ford, and in the past Chrysler? The one in which the Japanese government is carefully intertwined with their automotive industry? The government is a customer of space x but they still compete against other companies for that business.
- paganel 8y ago
  The French government is also a big shareholder of Renault and Volkswagen is partially owned by the regional government where they’re domiciled, if I’m not mistaken, plus the German government itself always putting the interests of the German big 3 (MB, BMW, VW) ahead of almost everything else, even their citizens’ health (see the tax incentives given to diesel vehicles for the last couple of decades).
  - majewsky 8y ago
    Correct. Also a large part of the reason why we still don't have universal speed limits on Autobahnen.
    - Tomte 8y ago
      That‘s simply wrong. We don‘t have a speed limit because the majority of the people would hate that. On the other hand, German carmakers have a longstanding gentleman‘s agreement to electronically limit their cars to 250 km/h. Seems they can live with limits.
      - qume 8y ago
        Wow 250kmh. May as well be limited to C like the rest of the world's auto makers at that speed
        Tomte 8y ago
        Few cars reach that, of course.
fizixer 8y ago
In which "free" market are you "prohibited" from selling your product directly to customers? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Liquor.
  - mikestew 8y ago
    Depending upon one's state of residence, the liquor market can be anything but "free". (Just off the top of my head, tiffs between Costco and distributors when Costco wanted to sell liquor.)
  - bvc35 8y ago
    In many US states, liquor sale is not a free market.
gvb 8y ago
By my count, there have been 25 US Government (including NASA) launches and 38 other launches - about 40% US Government, 60% other. Ref: https://www.spacex.com/missions https://www.spacex.com/missions

Isn't SpaceX success due to the fact that most of its orders come from the US government while Tesla has to compete in the free market and isn't that successful there?

mmanfrin 8y ago

isn't that successful there? What?

SheinhardtWigCo 8y ago
“Hasn’t yet made any money there” would be more accurate.
delinka 8y ago
>...isn't all that successful in the free market? That's the intended question. Though I don't know what GP's definition of "success" is.

Johnny555 8y ago

That may be true, but the stability comes from it being privately held -- the SpaceX stock doesn't swing wildly every time some news about their competition with Boeing is released.

gamblor956 8y ago
Boeing is publicly traded under the ticker BA...
- Johnny555 8y ago
  I meant the SpaceX stock doesn't swing wildly every time news like this comes out: https://www.investopedia.com/news/spacex-will-fly-astronauts-boeing-nasa/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/spacex-will-fly-astronauts... Or this: https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/nasa-commercial-crew-analysis-finds-boeing-slightly-ahead-of-spacex/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/nasa-commercial-crew... (I clarified my original comment)
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    SpaceX is privately held, unlike Tesla.
    - Johnny555 8y ago
      Yes, that's the point.
microtherion 8y ago
A profitable company has no need to be excessively concerned about its stock price. Of course, at some point, shareholders might consider putting on pressure, but that doesn't really seem to have happened even with Tesla. And in closely held companies, that kind of pressure is much stronger — it's not like Musk has $70B of spare change in his couch pillows, so he'll always have to deal with co-owners.
- nine_k 8y ago
  Most importantly, the co-owners are less likely to ask why a particular step to maximize profits in this quarter hasn't been done. To say nothing of activist shareholders who theoretically could sue; such things killed a few still-profitable companies, and Tesla isn't one yet.

Voloskaya 8y ago

> and isn't that successful there? Having 2 years worth of production in the backlog is not successful? Ok then.

Diederich 8y ago

NASA certainly did save SpaceX early on with some funding and contracts, which SpaceX fully delivered on at a competitive price. I'm not going to look it up right now, but for now and the past several years, most of SpaceX's income has come from sources outside of NASA. That is, commercial launches.

gameswithgo 8y ago

The free market of automobile manufacturing in which the USA has propped up both GM and Ford, and in the past Chrysler? The one in which the Japanese government is carefully intertwined with their automotive industry? The government is a customer of space x but they still compete against other companies for that business.

paganel 8y ago
The French government is also a big shareholder of Renault and Volkswagen is partially owned by the regional government where they’re domiciled, if I’m not mistaken, plus the German government itself always putting the interests of the German big 3 (MB, BMW, VW) ahead of almost everything else, even their citizens’ health (see the tax incentives given to diesel vehicles for the last couple of decades).
- majewsky 8y ago
  Correct. Also a large part of the reason why we still don't have universal speed limits on Autobahnen.
  - Tomte 8y ago
    That‘s simply wrong. We don‘t have a speed limit because the majority of the people would hate that. On the other hand, German carmakers have a longstanding gentleman‘s agreement to electronically limit their cars to 250 km/h. Seems they can live with limits.
    - qume 8y ago
      Wow 250kmh. May as well be limited to C like the rest of the world's auto makers at that speed
      - Tomte 8y ago
        Few cars reach that, of course.

fizixer 8y ago

In which "free" market are you "prohibited" from selling your product directly to customers? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

reaperducer 8y ago
Liquor.
- mikestew 8y ago
  Depending upon one's state of residence, the liquor market can be anything but "free". (Just off the top of my head, tiffs between Costco and distributors when Costco wanted to sell liquor.)
- bvc35 8y ago
  In many US states, liquor sale is not a free market.

gvb 8y ago

By my count, there have been 25 US Government (including NASA) launches and 38 other launches - about 40% US Government, 60% other. Ref: https://www.spacex.com/missions https://www.spacex.com/missions