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> usability gap between OSX and Windows 10 has closed considerably over the past few years. What do you mean? A few examples would be helpful. I am not a frequ

> usability gap between OSX and Windows 10 has closed considerably over the past few years. What do you mean? A few examples would be helpful. I am not a frequent Windows user but my impressions, mostly confirmed by seeing other people comment online, is that Windows 7 was the "zenith of Windows UX", with a major step back due to "tabletization" with Windows 8 and partial return to glory with Windows 10. The fact that some apps are designed for touch and look ridiculous on a desktop (calculator), others exist in two forms (the control panel) only makes Windows 10 more confusing, not less.

Jonnax 8y ago
People saying that Windows 7 is some holy grail are not worth listening to when comparing modern systems. The operating system came out 9 years ago. Windows 8 was a massive misstep but they've righted the ship somewhat with 10. There's two control panels bit in each update more functionality moves into the Windows 10 style control panel. The calculator is just a flat styled application not sure why it's rediculus. But tbh I use Google, Excel or Wolfram to do my calculations rather than that app. Features that Windows 10 has for usability. Well there's multiple desktops, small things like built in f.lux. It's nice that you can set a device specific pin for your account. Though having a cloud based account like Android or iPhone may upset some. Also there's excellent touch screen support as a lot of laptops these days support it. Unloke OSX. Sometimes it's just better to scroll using your hands. There's a lot of things under the hood that make it faster and more secure. There are downsides like Random reboots for updates.
- dep_b 8y ago
  I think under the hood Windows is ahead of macOS. But simple user facing stuff like NSDocument just doesn't exist. Meaning most programs don't return to their state when you reboot, which makes installing updates such a chore since your work is really cut. I had to Google to find the thrash can. Systray icons are not completely killed but very minimized, replaced by nothing. Always alerts and flags that give you a vague sense of something being wrong with your system. Never a clear idea where to find settings. It was already a mess in older versions of Windows like 7, being less crappy than Windows 8 in that sense for me is not really any kind of achievement. I mean I can work with it, no problem. Especially if you pay me to use it. But the user exists to support the system, not the other way around.
linguae 8y ago
I bought a Dell XPS 15 9570 over a month ago. I've been a Mac user since 2006, and I still have one foot in the Mac ecosystem since I use a Mac Pro daily. Anyway, I found my experience with Windows 10 on my XPS to be much better than my first experience with Windows 10, which was on a refurbished ThinkPad T430 with a slow hard disk (that was painful). I still believe that overall macOS is more consistent and more polished than Windows 10, but Windows 10 is not a bad OS, and I find myself very productive with the Windows Subsystem for Linux layer. In my opinion Windows 10 is at par with the Linux desktops I've used in recent years, such as Cinnamon and KDE Plasma. By comparison, I feel that macOS has not changed very much in terms of compelling features since Snow Leopard. With the exception of iCloud and updated web browsers, I think I could still remain productive in Snow Leopard even today. The things I miss the most about macOS on my Dell XPS 15 9570 are certain Mac-exclusive software products such as Apple Keynote, OmniOutliner, and OmniGraffle. But I still have my Mac Pro and my iPad for these apps.
jdietrich 8y ago
For the HN crowd, the Linux Subsystem for Windows is kind of a big deal - many traditional Windows annoyances are ameliorated when you've got a Bash shell. Pen input is a) available and b) very good. The split control panel is a bit gross, but it's also a reasonable compromise - novice users get a greatly simplified interface for basic settings, while experienced users keep a familiar interface for more complex configuration. The driver situation has massively improved, with the vast majority of devices being genuinely plug-and-play; hardware compatibility on Windows is still leagues ahead of Linux or OSX. Task and workspace switching works really well and the task timeline is a very useful improvement. More broadly, I think that OSX has been moving backwards while Windows has been moving forwards. It's purely subjective, but I think that OSX has an increasing number of nasty and persistent bugs. Windows is an inherently more complex platform, but Microsoft just seem to care more about software quality and the developer experience. VS Code is emblematic of what's happening within Microsoft - it's the best new text editor in recent years, it's freely licensed in full and the dev team are highly responsive to feedback and bug reports. Windows is still occasionally quite annoying and has gained a few new annoyances with the move towards touch, but the proportion of stuff that Just Works seems to improve with every major update. My current dev machine has been running Windows 10 since launch without a reinstall or a BSOD. I'd probably be running Ubuntu if I didn't need a few key pieces of proprietary software, but using Windows really isn't much of a hardship. I loathed XP and 7, but I cheerfully tolerate Windows 10. It's not my dream OS, but it has never ruined my day.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  The Windows bash shell would be a lot better if you could interact with files on your normal Windows filesystem, like Desktop and Dropbox, and vice versa with opening files you made in Bash in Atom outside.
  - lediur 8y ago
    You can do that in WSL already - the Windows drives are mounted and writable through the Linux file system as /mnt/c, /mnt/d, and so on. You can use Linux executables to create, delete, and modify files just as you'd expect with any file system mount (without some Linux-specific concepts like permissions). With WSL, I've been able to run Linux-based dev and build tools and Windows IDEs at the same time on source stored in the Windows world with no issues. On the other hand, it's true that you can't / shouldn't modify files on the Linux file system (i.e. Files outside of /mnt/...) in Windows itself since the Linux-specific concepts would get mangled. With the mounts though, there shouldn't be any need to do this.

Jonnax 8y ago

People saying that Windows 7 is some holy grail are not worth listening to when comparing modern systems. The operating system came out 9 years ago. Windows 8 was a massive misstep but they've righted the ship somewhat with 10. There's two control panels bit in each update more functionality moves into the Windows 10 style control panel. The calculator is just a flat styled application not sure why it's rediculus. But tbh I use Google, Excel or Wolfram to do my calculations rather than that app. Features that Windows 10 has for usability. Well there's multiple desktops, small things like built in f.lux. It's nice that you can set a device specific pin for your account. Though having a cloud based account like Android or iPhone may upset some. Also there's excellent touch screen support as a lot of laptops these days support it. Unloke OSX. Sometimes it's just better to scroll using your hands. There's a lot of things under the hood that make it faster and more secure. There are downsides like Random reboots for updates.

dep_b 8y ago
I think under the hood Windows is ahead of macOS. But simple user facing stuff like NSDocument just doesn't exist. Meaning most programs don't return to their state when you reboot, which makes installing updates such a chore since your work is really cut. I had to Google to find the thrash can. Systray icons are not completely killed but very minimized, replaced by nothing. Always alerts and flags that give you a vague sense of something being wrong with your system. Never a clear idea where to find settings. It was already a mess in older versions of Windows like 7, being less crappy than Windows 8 in that sense for me is not really any kind of achievement. I mean I can work with it, no problem. Especially if you pay me to use it. But the user exists to support the system, not the other way around.

linguae 8y ago

I bought a Dell XPS 15 9570 over a month ago. I've been a Mac user since 2006, and I still have one foot in the Mac ecosystem since I use a Mac Pro daily. Anyway, I found my experience with Windows 10 on my XPS to be much better than my first experience with Windows 10, which was on a refurbished ThinkPad T430 with a slow hard disk (that was painful). I still believe that overall macOS is more consistent and more polished than Windows 10, but Windows 10 is not a bad OS, and I find myself very productive with the Windows Subsystem for Linux layer. In my opinion Windows 10 is at par with the Linux desktops I've used in recent years, such as Cinnamon and KDE Plasma. By comparison, I feel that macOS has not changed very much in terms of compelling features since Snow Leopard. With the exception of iCloud and updated web browsers, I think I could still remain productive in Snow Leopard even today. The things I miss the most about macOS on my Dell XPS 15 9570 are certain Mac-exclusive software products such as Apple Keynote, OmniOutliner, and OmniGraffle. But I still have my Mac Pro and my iPad for these apps.

jdietrich 8y ago

For the HN crowd, the Linux Subsystem for Windows is kind of a big deal - many traditional Windows annoyances are ameliorated when you've got a Bash shell. Pen input is a) available and b) very good. The split control panel is a bit gross, but it's also a reasonable compromise - novice users get a greatly simplified interface for basic settings, while experienced users keep a familiar interface for more complex configuration. The driver situation has massively improved, with the vast majority of devices being genuinely plug-and-play; hardware compatibility on Windows is still leagues ahead of Linux or OSX. Task and workspace switching works really well and the task timeline is a very useful improvement. More broadly, I think that OSX has been moving backwards while Windows has been moving forwards. It's purely subjective, but I think that OSX has an increasing number of nasty and persistent bugs. Windows is an inherently more complex platform, but Microsoft just seem to care more about software quality and the developer experience. VS Code is emblematic of what's happening within Microsoft - it's the best new text editor in recent years, it's freely licensed in full and the dev team are highly responsive to feedback and bug reports. Windows is still occasionally quite annoying and has gained a few new annoyances with the move towards touch, but the proportion of stuff that Just Works seems to improve with every major update. My current dev machine has been running Windows 10 since launch without a reinstall or a BSOD. I'd probably be running Ubuntu if I didn't need a few key pieces of proprietary software, but using Windows really isn't much of a hardship. I loathed XP and 7, but I cheerfully tolerate Windows 10. It's not my dream OS, but it has never ruined my day.

PascLeRasc 8y ago
The Windows bash shell would be a lot better if you could interact with files on your normal Windows filesystem, like Desktop and Dropbox, and vice versa with opening files you made in Bash in Atom outside.
- lediur 8y ago
  You can do that in WSL already - the Windows drives are mounted and writable through the Linux file system as /mnt/c, /mnt/d, and so on. You can use Linux executables to create, delete, and modify files just as you'd expect with any file system mount (without some Linux-specific concepts like permissions). With WSL, I've been able to run Linux-based dev and build tools and Windows IDEs at the same time on source stored in the Windows world with no issues. On the other hand, it's true that you can't / shouldn't modify files on the Linux file system (i.e. Files outside of /mnt/...) in Windows itself since the Linux-specific concepts would get mangled. With the mounts though, there shouldn't be any need to do this.