4 ms·

Its almost if there is a group of folks who want elections to be easily hacked and manipulated.

micaksica 8y ago
IMO Occam's razor ends up here. Electronic voting systems do two things very well: obfuscate the system in a way that is relatively incomprehensible to a layman, and provide plausible deniability in the case of manipulation. Even if manipulation is discovered, you can chalk it up to a "bug" and re-run the manipulated election again. People are stupid, and most ordinary people only want to believe there's malice involved when they've run out of more pleasing cognitive options. I believe that if this site enumerated all the ways that you can maliciously use computerized vs. paper voting systems, we would show a hell of a lot more benefits to a manipulator than a voter.
- AFNobody 8y ago
  That is more or less correct. It is a way for state governments to enable "their side" to win easier. It will get worse as the demographic shift continues to strangle the GOP's support in swing states.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- Terr_ 8y ago
  > IMO Occam's razor ends up here. Electronic voting systems do two things very well: obfuscate the system in a way that is relatively incomprehensible to a layman, and provide plausible deniability in the case of manipulation. I think if you bring up Occam's Razor you also need: 1. Somebody gets to make money selling crap to the government 2. Somebody in government thinks it'll mean cost-savings
- otakucode 8y ago
  Occam's Razor is not a real logical principle. It would also lead to the conclusion that the reason not much of substance is ever done about computer security in general is because there is someone or some group who earnestly wants to see the rise of action-movie-style supervillains who can walk down the street and see society unwind into chaos around them as ATMs jackpot into the street, airplanes careen out of the sky, power stations blink and surge, all the doors to prison cells fling wide open, and modern cars lock the steering while maxing out the accelerator. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence. And that's the case here. Electronic voting, if it were magically secure, would be cheaper and more accessible. And it would make some companies like Diebold a bunch of money. So of course it gets pursued.
rayiner 8y ago
Which group would that be?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- komali2 8y ago
  Historically in the United States (at least for the last 50 years), the Republican political party has taken the most actions to restrict access to voting, unfairly redistrict to give them an advantage (gerrymandering), or simply screw with the voting system (to their advantage). Fringe local Democrats sometimes play with gerrymandering[0], but not nearly at the same rate. [1][2][3][4] Given that the current party with federal power is the Republican party, I would argue there is no better time for them to pass as many vote-restriction laws as possible. Vote restrictions typically target the poor and minorities, who typically are Democrat party voters. The wikipedia article I linked is actually a remarkably good overview of the recent history of this issue in the USA. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/how-maryland-democrats-pulled-off-their-aggressive-gerrymander/?utm_term=.2f9aa1dc9728 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/how-m... [1] https://www.brennancenter.org/new-voting-restrictions-america https://www.brennancenter.org/new-voting-restrictions-americ... [2] https://www.npr.org/2017/03/09/519500312/state-republicans-push-for-more-restrictive-voting-laws https://www.npr.org/2017/03/09/519500312/state-republicans-p... [3] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/how-the-gop-rigs-elections-121907/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/how-the-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Unite...
  - rayiner 8y ago
    Except making it easier to vote and register to vote is Democrats’ shtick. Republicans were just fine with paper ballots that young people couldn’t be bothered to use.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- 8y ago

IMO Occam's razor ends up here. Electronic voting systems do two things very well: obfuscate the system in a way that is relatively incomprehensible to a layman, and provide plausible deniability in the case of manipulation. Even if manipulation is discovered, you can chalk it up to a "bug" and re-run the manipulated election again. People are stupid, and most ordinary people only want to believe there's malice involved when they've run out of more pleasing cognitive options. I believe that if this site enumerated all the ways that you can maliciously use computerized vs. paper voting systems, we would show a hell of a lot more benefits to a manipulator than a voter.

AFNobody 8y ago
That is more or less correct. It is a way for state governments to enable "their side" to win easier. It will get worse as the demographic shift continues to strangle the GOP's support in swing states.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Terr_ 8y ago
> IMO Occam's razor ends up here. Electronic voting systems do two things very well: obfuscate the system in a way that is relatively incomprehensible to a layman, and provide plausible deniability in the case of manipulation. I think if you bring up Occam's Razor you also need: 1. Somebody gets to make money selling crap to the government 2. Somebody in government thinks it'll mean cost-savings
otakucode 8y ago
Occam's Razor is not a real logical principle. It would also lead to the conclusion that the reason not much of substance is ever done about computer security in general is because there is someone or some group who earnestly wants to see the rise of action-movie-style supervillains who can walk down the street and see society unwind into chaos around them as ATMs jackpot into the street, airplanes careen out of the sky, power stations blink and surge, all the doors to prison cells fling wide open, and modern cars lock the steering while maxing out the accelerator. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence. And that's the case here. Electronic voting, if it were magically secure, would be cheaper and more accessible. And it would make some companies like Diebold a bunch of money. So of course it gets pursued.

rayiner 8y ago

Which group would that be?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
komali2 8y ago
Historically in the United States (at least for the last 50 years), the Republican political party has taken the most actions to restrict access to voting, unfairly redistrict to give them an advantage (gerrymandering), or simply screw with the voting system (to their advantage). Fringe local Democrats sometimes play with gerrymandering[0], but not nearly at the same rate. [1][2][3][4] Given that the current party with federal power is the Republican party, I would argue there is no better time for them to pass as many vote-restriction laws as possible. Vote restrictions typically target the poor and minorities, who typically are Democrat party voters. The wikipedia article I linked is actually a remarkably good overview of the recent history of this issue in the USA. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/how-maryland-democrats-pulled-off-their-aggressive-gerrymander/?utm_term=.2f9aa1dc9728 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/how-m... [1] https://www.brennancenter.org/new-voting-restrictions-america https://www.brennancenter.org/new-voting-restrictions-americ... [2] https://www.npr.org/2017/03/09/519500312/state-republicans-push-for-more-restrictive-voting-laws https://www.npr.org/2017/03/09/519500312/state-republicans-p... [3] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/how-the-gop-rigs-elections-121907/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/how-the-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Unite...
- rayiner 8y ago
  Except making it easier to vote and register to vote is Democrats’ shtick. Republicans were just fine with paper ballots that young people couldn’t be bothered to use.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
8y ago