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The EU should force apple to open NFC to all. The only reason we have these stupid slow bluetooth adhoc payment systems here is because apple refuses to let any

The EU should force apple to open NFC to all. The only reason we have these stupid slow bluetooth adhoc payment systems here is because apple refuses to let anyone other than their own apple pay use NFC. I can use my android phone to pay via NFC directly from my bank account (no android pay, no third party or extra fees.). Why can't apple?

jbrooksuk 8y ago
You mean https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corenfc https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corenfc?
- sschueller 8y ago
  That's limited to NFC tags. You can't do proper card emulation for payment terminals with that.
- grezql 8y ago
  to be frank that corenfc has limitations which i think the threadstarter is complaining about. Namely it doesnt work if the app is not in foreground. Only Apple Pay can use corenfc when phone screen is off or the app is not running in foreground.
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    Does it use it in the background, though? I've always double-tapped the power button to open Apple Pay before trying to read the phone. Likewise, when I had an S7 Edge, I opened Google Pay before attempting.
    - Sidnicious 8y ago
      Yes. On both iOS and Android, the wallet should open on its own when the phone detects a payment terminal. You don't have to double-tap the power button.
      - pwinnski 8y ago
        In my experience, this is definitely not the case. Multiple terminals at multiple stores have not activated Apple Pay on my iPhone X. I've always had to double-tap the button.
Freak_NL 8y ago
It is also hurting the adoption of proper 2FA in the form of FIDO U2F/WebAuthn. With Apple phones and tablets there is no normal USB port (A or the newer C), and forcing vendors to include a Bluetooth option in their security keys drives up the cost. It's downright silly to deny the owners of the hardware to use it.
dogma1138 8y ago
Apple Pay is secure, does not expose your details and is integrated with the banks in the bank end. The last thing you want is to have a plethora of insecure adhock hacked together contactless payment systems.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Isn't that what the Store review process is supposed to prevent?
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    The store review process can only achieve so much, it also has no control over the backend. Apple Pay is fully integrated with the banks and issuers you get a notification form your bank when you add a card and you can revoke it without going through Apple if your phone is lost. You also are assured that your card details are never exposed because Apple does not use the PAN for billing, and it also does not expose your billing/shipping information without your acknowledgment and consent when used to purchase items on Apple Pay enabled services.
- grezql 8y ago
  thats not the problem here. Developers like me dont want to access apple pay but NFC. Lets say you distribute nfc stickers to local store, and when someone swipes their iphone on it, it should wake up my app and fetch the production information. Such ideas wont work with apples NFC limitation. They require you to first open the app, then swipe. Many innovation ideas are hampered by Apples behaviour. Its not about security, its about Apple pays rollout and adoption
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    You are moving the goalposts. You can read NFC tags on iOS devices without a problem, I don’t want an NFC signal being able to initiate any action on my device, you shouldn’t want that either. For mission specific implementations e.g. inventory checking or shopping costumers can have the app active it’s much less of an inconvenience and a security risk than being able to wake up apps and communicate with them without the user being aware of such activity. While you can argue that many innovative ideas are hampered by Apple this isn’t one of them they are in the right on this issue and many other security related issues.
CaptainJustin 8y ago
Here in South Africa we've had NFC payments (Android only) for our phones. I use it every day! Apple needs to come to the party

jbrooksuk 8y ago

You mean https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corenfc https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corenfc?

sschueller 8y ago
That's limited to NFC tags. You can't do proper card emulation for payment terminals with that.
grezql 8y ago
to be frank that corenfc has limitations which i think the threadstarter is complaining about. Namely it doesnt work if the app is not in foreground. Only Apple Pay can use corenfc when phone screen is off or the app is not running in foreground.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  Does it use it in the background, though? I've always double-tapped the power button to open Apple Pay before trying to read the phone. Likewise, when I had an S7 Edge, I opened Google Pay before attempting.
  - Sidnicious 8y ago
    Yes. On both iOS and Android, the wallet should open on its own when the phone detects a payment terminal. You don't have to double-tap the power button.
    - pwinnski 8y ago
      In my experience, this is definitely not the case. Multiple terminals at multiple stores have not activated Apple Pay on my iPhone X. I've always had to double-tap the button.

Freak_NL 8y ago

It is also hurting the adoption of proper 2FA in the form of FIDO U2F/WebAuthn. With Apple phones and tablets there is no normal USB port (A or the newer C), and forcing vendors to include a Bluetooth option in their security keys drives up the cost. It's downright silly to deny the owners of the hardware to use it.

dogma1138 8y ago

Apple Pay is secure, does not expose your details and is integrated with the banks in the bank end. The last thing you want is to have a plethora of insecure adhock hacked together contactless payment systems.

icebraining 8y ago
Isn't that what the Store review process is supposed to prevent?
- dogma1138 8y ago
  The store review process can only achieve so much, it also has no control over the backend. Apple Pay is fully integrated with the banks and issuers you get a notification form your bank when you add a card and you can revoke it without going through Apple if your phone is lost. You also are assured that your card details are never exposed because Apple does not use the PAN for billing, and it also does not expose your billing/shipping information without your acknowledgment and consent when used to purchase items on Apple Pay enabled services.
grezql 8y ago
thats not the problem here. Developers like me dont want to access apple pay but NFC. Lets say you distribute nfc stickers to local store, and when someone swipes their iphone on it, it should wake up my app and fetch the production information. Such ideas wont work with apples NFC limitation. They require you to first open the app, then swipe. Many innovation ideas are hampered by Apples behaviour. Its not about security, its about Apple pays rollout and adoption
- dogma1138 8y ago
  You are moving the goalposts. You can read NFC tags on iOS devices without a problem, I don’t want an NFC signal being able to initiate any action on my device, you shouldn’t want that either. For mission specific implementations e.g. inventory checking or shopping costumers can have the app active it’s much less of an inconvenience and a security risk than being able to wake up apps and communicate with them without the user being aware of such activity. While you can argue that many innovative ideas are hampered by Apple this isn’t one of them they are in the right on this issue and many other security related issues.

CaptainJustin 8y ago

Here in South Africa we've had NFC payments (Android only) for our phones. I use it every day! Apple needs to come to the party