4 ms·

In IT, I've found that the degree only has any influence on your first job. After that, future employers only care about your work history - no one cares anymor

by hobbs 18y ago

In IT, I've found that the degree only has any influence on your first job. After that, future employers only care about your work history - no one cares anymore about your degree, your GPA, or the school. So if instead of going to college, you can find an employer who's willing to hire a high school grad, you may be 4 years (and many $$$) ahead of the game. Does anyone know if this is the case in other industries? Does the degree make a difference to a prospective accounting clerk if she already has 5 years of work experience?

boredguy8 18y ago
My experience has been that those who have a problem with me not having a BS are generally the type of...limited individuals I wouldn't want to work with, anyway.
- donw 18y ago
  That is an incredibly patronizing attitude to have. They are 'limited' because they use a very sensible method to screen applicants? It is very true that not having a degree shouldn't be a bar to employment, but the process of getting that piece of paper does display a level of discipline that is very important when it comes to getting things done. I know that someone with a baccalaureate in mathematics or any of the sciences has had to work very, very hard in order to get that degree, and that they have needed to do a number of things which they considered obvious and boring, because those things were essential to getting the job done. I know there are people who don't have degrees who have that sort of dedication; in fact, one of my friends fits the bill perfectly. These people will demonstrate their value in other ways, but the majority of people who blow off college are, frankly, lazy and disorganized, and often think that they are much more skilled than they really are. This goes double for programmers, who already have a natural habit of overestimating their abilities. From the perspective of an employer, I would think very carefully about hiring someone without a degree. I would probably not even consider hiring someone without some college experience, unless they had a stellar work record and about a mile of ironclad references.
  - nostrademons 18y ago
    I have a B.A. in computer science from a top college, and I agree completely with boredguy. Working on an open-source project or consumer website or other project teaches you to overcome hurdles, but only when they're necessary. If you're responsible for results, then you have an incentive to find and take whatever shortcuts you can. You plow through only the obstacles that absolutely are essential to getting the job done. Getting a degree teaches you to work very hard at whatever your professors tell you to do. A lot of it is pointless; a lot of it is stupid. You do it anyway, because you have to. But if you do too much of this, you start seeing things that are really pointless and stupid as necessary, and do them anyway. This is the kiss of death for a startup: you have to be ruthless about inefficiency, and nobody (other than the blatantly dishonest folks who cheat their way through college) learns to be ruthless about inefficiency through a college degree. I'd stop well short of saying I'd never hire anyone with a college degree, because I know a lot of smart folks who have one. But I won't make the degree more than a tiny portion of who I decide to hire. (I'd refuse to hire anyone that had never taken their own project from conception to completion, however - this will weed out virtually all of the lazy and disorganized, and also weed out people who are only good at following orders.)
    - aswanson 18y ago
      this will weed out virtually all of the lazy and disorganized, and also weed out people who are only good at following orders This is the number one thing to look out for, that can't be easily gamed. If somebody has a 4.0 GPA from a top school but no external side projects built on their own volition, they are probably not what you want, unless you run a very big company.
dnaquin 18y ago
It's amazing what doors having attended a good university can open. I'm on my second job after graduation, and I could obviously tell that the university I attended had a much larger impact on my hiring than the last years' worth of work experience.
- aantix 18y ago
  Have you been applying to large financial institutions because they seem to be the only ones who care anymore these days. 10 or 15 years into your career no one is going to care if you went to Harvard, MIT, Carnegie Mellon or any other school. You reach a point where the general studies that you took are just assumed and people will begin to want to know the particular niche skills that you have experience with (e.g., you've worked developing an automated trading system or you've worked developing some sort of image processing app). If I'm interviewing an engineer of 10 years and he mentions more than once where he went to school I am going to hammer him with technical questions. "OK Mr. MIT, let's see if that education really paid off."
  - yummyfajitas 18y ago
    What about Cornell? http://youtube.com/watch?v=3P8s6ZkrzlE&feature=related http://youtube.com/watch?v=3P8s6ZkrzlE&feature=related
  - dnaquin 18y ago
    I work at a small software development shop of about fifteen employees. Though, I agree in 10 to 15 years, I'd be concerned if anyone even asked me what school I went to. I'd start to think it's not a place I want to be working.
- aswanson 18y ago
  In straight up engineering jobs, nobody seems to give a damn about the school after your first gig. This may be due to the fact that you are generally being recruited for specific skill set and competence that the employer needs to derive measurable value from. The signaling type jobs (law, finance, hedge funds) require the big name schools, but not a specific skill set. Which tends to make me think that they are full of shit.

by hobbs 18y ago

boredguy8 18y ago

My experience has been that those who have a problem with me not having a BS are generally the type of...limited individuals I wouldn't want to work with, anyway.

donw 18y ago
That is an incredibly patronizing attitude to have. They are 'limited' because they use a very sensible method to screen applicants? It is very true that not having a degree shouldn't be a bar to employment, but the process of getting that piece of paper does display a level of discipline that is very important when it comes to getting things done. I know that someone with a baccalaureate in mathematics or any of the sciences has had to work very, very hard in order to get that degree, and that they have needed to do a number of things which they considered obvious and boring, because those things were essential to getting the job done. I know there are people who don't have degrees who have that sort of dedication; in fact, one of my friends fits the bill perfectly. These people will demonstrate their value in other ways, but the majority of people who blow off college are, frankly, lazy and disorganized, and often think that they are much more skilled than they really are. This goes double for programmers, who already have a natural habit of overestimating their abilities. From the perspective of an employer, I would think very carefully about hiring someone without a degree. I would probably not even consider hiring someone without some college experience, unless they had a stellar work record and about a mile of ironclad references.
- nostrademons 18y ago
  I have a B.A. in computer science from a top college, and I agree completely with boredguy. Working on an open-source project or consumer website or other project teaches you to overcome hurdles, but only when they're necessary. If you're responsible for results, then you have an incentive to find and take whatever shortcuts you can. You plow through only the obstacles that absolutely are essential to getting the job done. Getting a degree teaches you to work very hard at whatever your professors tell you to do. A lot of it is pointless; a lot of it is stupid. You do it anyway, because you have to. But if you do too much of this, you start seeing things that are really pointless and stupid as necessary, and do them anyway. This is the kiss of death for a startup: you have to be ruthless about inefficiency, and nobody (other than the blatantly dishonest folks who cheat their way through college) learns to be ruthless about inefficiency through a college degree. I'd stop well short of saying I'd never hire anyone with a college degree, because I know a lot of smart folks who have one. But I won't make the degree more than a tiny portion of who I decide to hire. (I'd refuse to hire anyone that had never taken their own project from conception to completion, however - this will weed out virtually all of the lazy and disorganized, and also weed out people who are only good at following orders.)
  - aswanson 18y ago
    this will weed out virtually all of the lazy and disorganized, and also weed out people who are only good at following orders This is the number one thing to look out for, that can't be easily gamed. If somebody has a 4.0 GPA from a top school but no external side projects built on their own volition, they are probably not what you want, unless you run a very big company.

dnaquin 18y ago

It's amazing what doors having attended a good university can open. I'm on my second job after graduation, and I could obviously tell that the university I attended had a much larger impact on my hiring than the last years' worth of work experience.

aantix 18y ago
Have you been applying to large financial institutions because they seem to be the only ones who care anymore these days. 10 or 15 years into your career no one is going to care if you went to Harvard, MIT, Carnegie Mellon or any other school. You reach a point where the general studies that you took are just assumed and people will begin to want to know the particular niche skills that you have experience with (e.g., you've worked developing an automated trading system or you've worked developing some sort of image processing app). If I'm interviewing an engineer of 10 years and he mentions more than once where he went to school I am going to hammer him with technical questions. "OK Mr. MIT, let's see if that education really paid off."
- yummyfajitas 18y ago
  What about Cornell? http://youtube.com/watch?v=3P8s6ZkrzlE&feature=related http://youtube.com/watch?v=3P8s6ZkrzlE&feature=related
- dnaquin 18y ago
  I work at a small software development shop of about fifteen employees. Though, I agree in 10 to 15 years, I'd be concerned if anyone even asked me what school I went to. I'd start to think it's not a place I want to be working.
aswanson 18y ago
In straight up engineering jobs, nobody seems to give a damn about the school after your first gig. This may be due to the fact that you are generally being recruited for specific skill set and competence that the employer needs to derive measurable value from. The signaling type jobs (law, finance, hedge funds) require the big name schools, but not a specific skill set. Which tends to make me think that they are full of shit.