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I've got friends who work at places where company policy says that any electronics you travel to China with can never be connected to the corporate network agai

I've got friends who work at places where company policy says that any electronics you travel to China with can never be connected to the corporate network again. They don't destroy the devices, but all travel phones/laptops are "burners" and get given away instead of ever used for work again.

allthenews 8y ago
Why? Couldn't you just format the drives if you were that paranoid? Are they worried about some kind of hardware bugging or sub OS exploits while the owner is not looking?
- mohaine 8y ago
  Quite simply yes. A modern "computer" is made up of multiple layered CPUs and OSs at this point. WiFi, sound, ssd, GPU all often have embedded cpu and firmware that could get "enhanced" and survive a recore
  - bigiain 8y ago
    Hell - even the _batteries_ have embedded cpus and firmware... https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-19/dc-19-presentations/Miller/DEFCON-19-Miller-Battery-Firmware-Hacking.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-19/dc-19-presentations/... (Note slide 116 there - about 7 up from the end: "Attacking the OS kernel") https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2099616/black-hat-charlie-miller-explains-apple-battery-hack https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2099616/black-hat-charlie-mi... http://www.karosium.com/2016/08/smbusb-hacking-smart-batteries.html http://www.karosium.com/2016/08/smbusb-hacking-smart-batteri...
    - ridgeguy 8y ago
      In the end, if it runs code, you cannot trust it.
- slowburning 8y ago
  You could reformat the drives but what if someone has infected the firmware on the drive? Check out: https://www.malwaretech.com/2015/04/hard-disk-firmware-hacking-part-1.html https://www.malwaretech.com/2015/04/hard-disk-firmware-hacki...
mayniac 8y ago
Every company I've worked with with business in China or Russia does this. Same rule was implemented last year when there was a ban on laptops on flights to/from Iran and the other Muslim majority countries the US put travel restrictions on, despite being UK based. The devices aren't given away however, they're just wiped and reused as burners. Not 100% secure as a nation state would have access to BIOS rootkits but it's better than nothing.
- namibj 8y ago
  X-ray and check flash content, also use tamper-evident seals (glitter nail polish) on internal parts.
  - morrbo 8y ago
    care to go into more detail about the glitter/nail polish? I've heard of the "straw" technique[1], flour/baby powder by the door, but never this stuff. (chucking a random assortment of straws on top of your laptop then taking a photo, with the idea that it will be more difficult/time consuming/impossible to recreate exactly like in the photo).
    - andreareina 8y ago
      Same thing as the straws basically: paint glitter over screws and such, take a picture.
doit123 8y ago
If they are that afraid of China, imagine what US is capable of. Oh, right...can't imagine. idiots.
- wruza 8y ago
  Downvoters care to explain? We have two options: owner wants to install spyware, or someone wants to do that. What’s the deal of going to spyware shop or flying in owner’s land and do simple social engineering there? These measures seem truly idiotic until explained, which you downvoters didn’t care to do. As of military sites, only regular citizens don’t know where they are. Those who want to know just triangulate it to nearest towns and never have to do u-turns before the gate (where gps is scrambled anyway). It is trivial logic, but when it goes military everyone seems to lose their minds.
  - klez 8y ago
    I think the downvotes are for the unwarranted and, frankly, childish "idiots" at the end.
SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
Seems utterly bizarre considering all of those devices must have come from China in the first place...
- bigiain 8y ago
  But they're _probably_ not installing exploits on the entire logistics chain "haystack, at least not exploits with the level of sophistication they'd use on a high-value "needle" with an evil maid (or an evil customs inspector) attack. Also - the Australian Government banned the NBNCo from using any Huawei gear in out National Broadband Network. Sadly that's _probably_ either just racist political point scoring, or effective lobbying (or outright bribery) from the non-Chinese based network gear companies - rather than any real intent to improve security based on evidence from people/organisations capable of making that sort of determination...

allthenews 8y ago

Why? Couldn't you just format the drives if you were that paranoid? Are they worried about some kind of hardware bugging or sub OS exploits while the owner is not looking?

mohaine 8y ago
Quite simply yes. A modern "computer" is made up of multiple layered CPUs and OSs at this point. WiFi, sound, ssd, GPU all often have embedded cpu and firmware that could get "enhanced" and survive a recore
- bigiain 8y ago
  Hell - even the _batteries_ have embedded cpus and firmware... https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-19/dc-19-presentations/Miller/DEFCON-19-Miller-Battery-Firmware-Hacking.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-19/dc-19-presentations/... (Note slide 116 there - about 7 up from the end: "Attacking the OS kernel") https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2099616/black-hat-charlie-miller-explains-apple-battery-hack https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2099616/black-hat-charlie-mi... http://www.karosium.com/2016/08/smbusb-hacking-smart-batteries.html http://www.karosium.com/2016/08/smbusb-hacking-smart-batteri...
  - ridgeguy 8y ago
    In the end, if it runs code, you cannot trust it.
slowburning 8y ago
You could reformat the drives but what if someone has infected the firmware on the drive? Check out: https://www.malwaretech.com/2015/04/hard-disk-firmware-hacking-part-1.html https://www.malwaretech.com/2015/04/hard-disk-firmware-hacki...

mayniac 8y ago

Every company I've worked with with business in China or Russia does this. Same rule was implemented last year when there was a ban on laptops on flights to/from Iran and the other Muslim majority countries the US put travel restrictions on, despite being UK based. The devices aren't given away however, they're just wiped and reused as burners. Not 100% secure as a nation state would have access to BIOS rootkits but it's better than nothing.

namibj 8y ago
X-ray and check flash content, also use tamper-evident seals (glitter nail polish) on internal parts.
- morrbo 8y ago
  care to go into more detail about the glitter/nail polish? I've heard of the "straw" technique[1], flour/baby powder by the door, but never this stuff. (chucking a random assortment of straws on top of your laptop then taking a photo, with the idea that it will be more difficult/time consuming/impossible to recreate exactly like in the photo).
  - andreareina 8y ago
    Same thing as the straws basically: paint glitter over screws and such, take a picture.

doit123 8y ago

If they are that afraid of China, imagine what US is capable of. Oh, right...can't imagine. idiots.

wruza 8y ago
Downvoters care to explain? We have two options: owner wants to install spyware, or someone wants to do that. What’s the deal of going to spyware shop or flying in owner’s land and do simple social engineering there? These measures seem truly idiotic until explained, which you downvoters didn’t care to do. As of military sites, only regular citizens don’t know where they are. Those who want to know just triangulate it to nearest towns and never have to do u-turns before the gate (where gps is scrambled anyway). It is trivial logic, but when it goes military everyone seems to lose their minds.
- klez 8y ago
  I think the downvotes are for the unwarranted and, frankly, childish "idiots" at the end.

SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago

Seems utterly bizarre considering all of those devices must have come from China in the first place...

bigiain 8y ago
But they're _probably_ not installing exploits on the entire logistics chain "haystack, at least not exploits with the level of sophistication they'd use on a high-value "needle" with an evil maid (or an evil customs inspector) attack. Also - the Australian Government banned the NBNCo from using any Huawei gear in out National Broadband Network. Sadly that's _probably_ either just racist political point scoring, or effective lobbying (or outright bribery) from the non-Chinese based network gear companies - rather than any real intent to improve security based on evidence from people/organisations capable of making that sort of determination...