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How is no FCC better than the current FCC? How would you propose we regulate the use of radio bandwidth? Cell phones, wifi, bluetooth, all would be impossible w

How is no FCC better than the current FCC? How would you propose we regulate the use of radio bandwidth? Cell phones, wifi, bluetooth, all would be impossible without the FCC. Net neutrality can never be enforced by a non-existing entity. Congress ultimately has the final say over what the FCC may or may not decide. The accountability is there. If the current rules are broken, that's a problem to fix, not to give up on.

mindslight 8y ago
> Cell phones, wifi, bluetooth, all would be impossible without the FCC It sounds like you need to read up on the vast regulatory difference between cell bands and wifi. edit: I can't fathom why I'm being downvoted. Without the FCC we would have much faster wifi, not being confined to a few tiny slices of spectrum. But cell service is debatable. And radio astronomy would be fucked.
- wl 8y ago
  The ISM bands are a shitshow. Some people legitimately need licensed spectrum.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - mindslight 8y ago
    I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'd personally like to see a lot more public spectrum (say half of what was reclaimed from that DTV switchover [0]). But I respect there are many applications that do need dedicated spectrum, hence my reference to radio astronomy. Basic emergency comms that want the least possible protocol complexity is another. It's just not a very informed opinion to think the FCC effected wifi/bluetooth, rather than having merely gotten out of the way. [0] Or, if concerned it would merely end up a permanently unusable swamp due to the propagation, at least run an initial experiment with a tiny slice.
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      Yes, by all means take small steps. Those would still be progress! We might learn something about the right and wrong ways to deregulate spectrum. Up until now we've just been assuming that it can't be done, despite the WiFi's clear example of it being done well.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  It is sort of hilarious that WiFi would be presented as an argument for FCC... Eventually radio astronomy will take place in space, right? Besides, only really old-fashioned stuff like AM/FM can really interfere with astronomy more than a tiny increase in the overall noise level.
  - autocorr 8y ago
    This is unfortunately not true for radio astronomy, the receivers are very sensitive, and will show interference from even a simple LCD screen within a mile. At frequencies below 1 GHz, the VLA often has to throw away more than half of the data due to interference. Most observations happen outside of the protected bands, nature uses the whole spectrum, although the absolute most important bands are protected, like the 1420 MHz hydrogen line. For comparison, if you put a cell phone on the surface of the moon, it would be the brighter than the brightest natural source at 2 GHz. FM bands are wiped out, but some experiments where it is really important (the epoch of reionization) are put specifically in Western Australia or South Africa where it's wasteland and they protect the sites from interference.
jessaustin 8y ago
With no FCC to hold back use of modern radio technology, we could all choose from among dozens of WISPs. Net neutrality would be table stakes from most of those, because actual competition. The FCC does nothing in the WiFi space, and that space is flourishing. If they did nothing over the entire spectrum, the entire spectrum would flourish (eventually).
- krallja 8y ago
  > The FCC does nothing in the WiFi space Who regulates the power limits on consumer WiFi devices? You think it’s the goodness of device makers’ hearts that keeps them from screaming across county lines?
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    Better radio tech can deal with higher noise floors. It's not as if the military has to ground their planes whenever the bad foreign leader du jour cranks up his WiFi... I know there would be a transition period during which people would be pissed off that FM had gone away. After we got through that transition, we would enjoy many benefits.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      > It's not as if the military has to ground their planes whenever the bad foreign leader du jour cranks up his WiFi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        That link seems to describe a hack of a vulnerable C&C protocol rather than basic radio interference?
        monocasa 8y ago
        They jammed the the C&C and encrypted military GPS and spoofed the civilian fallback GPS to run it into the ground.

mindslight 8y ago

> Cell phones, wifi, bluetooth, all would be impossible without the FCC It sounds like you need to read up on the vast regulatory difference between cell bands and wifi. edit: I can't fathom why I'm being downvoted. Without the FCC we would have much faster wifi, not being confined to a few tiny slices of spectrum. But cell service is debatable. And radio astronomy would be fucked.

wl 8y ago
The ISM bands are a shitshow. Some people legitimately need licensed spectrum.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- mindslight 8y ago
  I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'd personally like to see a lot more public spectrum (say half of what was reclaimed from that DTV switchover [0]). But I respect there are many applications that do need dedicated spectrum, hence my reference to radio astronomy. Basic emergency comms that want the least possible protocol complexity is another. It's just not a very informed opinion to think the FCC effected wifi/bluetooth, rather than having merely gotten out of the way. [0] Or, if concerned it would merely end up a permanently unusable swamp due to the propagation, at least run an initial experiment with a tiny slice.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    Yes, by all means take small steps. Those would still be progress! We might learn something about the right and wrong ways to deregulate spectrum. Up until now we've just been assuming that it can't be done, despite the WiFi's clear example of it being done well.
jessaustin 8y ago
It is sort of hilarious that WiFi would be presented as an argument for FCC... Eventually radio astronomy will take place in space, right? Besides, only really old-fashioned stuff like AM/FM can really interfere with astronomy more than a tiny increase in the overall noise level.
- autocorr 8y ago
  This is unfortunately not true for radio astronomy, the receivers are very sensitive, and will show interference from even a simple LCD screen within a mile. At frequencies below 1 GHz, the VLA often has to throw away more than half of the data due to interference. Most observations happen outside of the protected bands, nature uses the whole spectrum, although the absolute most important bands are protected, like the 1420 MHz hydrogen line. For comparison, if you put a cell phone on the surface of the moon, it would be the brighter than the brightest natural source at 2 GHz. FM bands are wiped out, but some experiments where it is really important (the epoch of reionization) are put specifically in Western Australia or South Africa where it's wasteland and they protect the sites from interference.

jessaustin 8y ago

With no FCC to hold back use of modern radio technology, we could all choose from among dozens of WISPs. Net neutrality would be table stakes from most of those, because actual competition. The FCC does nothing in the WiFi space, and that space is flourishing. If they did nothing over the entire spectrum, the entire spectrum would flourish (eventually).

krallja 8y ago
> The FCC does nothing in the WiFi space Who regulates the power limits on consumer WiFi devices? You think it’s the goodness of device makers’ hearts that keeps them from screaming across county lines?
- jessaustin 8y ago
  Better radio tech can deal with higher noise floors. It's not as if the military has to ground their planes whenever the bad foreign leader du jour cranks up his WiFi... I know there would be a transition period during which people would be pissed off that FM had gone away. After we got through that transition, we would enjoy many benefits.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    > It's not as if the military has to ground their planes whenever the bad foreign leader du jour cranks up his WiFi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      That link seems to describe a hack of a vulnerable C&C protocol rather than basic radio interference?
      - monocasa 8y ago
        They jammed the the C&C and encrypted military GPS and spoofed the civilian fallback GPS to run it into the ground.