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It's strange how the switch to LED lights feels rushed and often not thought through all the way. Last winter, several intersections around my city had problem

It's strange how the switch to LED lights feels rushed and often not thought through all the way. Last winter, several intersections around my city had problems with snow accumulating and blocking the stop lights, because the new LED bulbs don't generate enough heat to melt the snow that accumulates. I guess hindsight is always 20/20, but it's surprising the people paid to make those decisions didn't think of it beforehand.

rconti 8y ago
The snow-melting effects of incandescents seems like something that was always there and "just worked" and, therefore, required no though. I'm not sure "the people paid to make those decisions" think it through any more than any of us can take the time to consider every possible consequence of every decision we make every day. And us tech folk already could be accused of overanalyzing many things, while still missing a ton..
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  When you’re making purchasing decisions on a large scale one of the requirements you need to be clear on is: Does the new acquisition suit the environment it will be operating in. These requirements ought be stated in the contract of sale. If the supplier makes claims that it does, and it turns out it doesn’t then they are in breach of the contract and can be tasked with making good. Of course, sometimes we get these things wrong.
  - rconti 8y ago
    Agreed. But these decisions are being made by (and I must admit here I know nothing about the subject matter at hand, this is just speculation) almost certainly tens of thousands of municipalities across the country, independently. From small towns to big cities. From huge, organized departments that attend traffic signaling conferences, to folks who treat this component of their job as almost an afterthought. And we're only noticing the towns that screwed up, not the one that wisely chose NOT to implement LEDs for these reasons. Or the ones that made the calculated choice that, based on snowfall patters in their region, energy savings, savings on maintenance costs, vs the higher purchase price of the LEDs, that the LEDs were probably the right choice.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      Thank you for the thoughtful response.
ams6110 8y ago
Honestly because the switch to LEDs has been at least as much about virtue signaling as any real savings. The energy savings will eventually pay for the LED conversion, but it takes a while. As in years. And as to unintended side effects, well we're just discovering those.
- st26 8y ago
  Where's your numbers for that? My local muni operates about 10,000 street lights. If HPS averages 400W apiece, that's 4 megawatts, run for maybe 10 hours a day, at $0.10/kWh that's $4,000 a night... Now if by "years" you meant "two years", then fine, I can believe it- but two years is still a fantastic payoff period. Don't forget HPS burns out pretty regularly too. Tactic my muni is using is simply to replace burnt-out HPS with LED instead of repairing it. Lo, after a few years we're probably half LED.
- ambicapter 8y ago
  > it takes a while. As in years. Are you somehow surprised that an infrastructure project would take years to pay off?
- taneq 8y ago
  Payback time on domestic LED bulbs is actually surprisingly quick. We have "100W" LED bulbs that draw around 11W of power, and cost ~$5 each, compared with say $1 for a 100W incandescent light bulb. At 20c/kWh that's 20kWh of electricity, or ~225 hours of run time at 89W of saved power. Even if we only ran a bulb for 3 hours a night, it would pay for itself in two and a half months. I imagine the case for street lighting is even stronger, especially when you start to factor labour costs for bulb replacement as well. And traffic lights would be stronger again, because they're cycling instead of being constantly on, which shortens the filament life significantly.

rconti 8y ago

The snow-melting effects of incandescents seems like something that was always there and "just worked" and, therefore, required no though. I'm not sure "the people paid to make those decisions" think it through any more than any of us can take the time to consider every possible consequence of every decision we make every day. And us tech folk already could be accused of overanalyzing many things, while still missing a ton..

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
When you’re making purchasing decisions on a large scale one of the requirements you need to be clear on is: Does the new acquisition suit the environment it will be operating in. These requirements ought be stated in the contract of sale. If the supplier makes claims that it does, and it turns out it doesn’t then they are in breach of the contract and can be tasked with making good. Of course, sometimes we get these things wrong.
- rconti 8y ago
  Agreed. But these decisions are being made by (and I must admit here I know nothing about the subject matter at hand, this is just speculation) almost certainly tens of thousands of municipalities across the country, independently. From small towns to big cities. From huge, organized departments that attend traffic signaling conferences, to folks who treat this component of their job as almost an afterthought. And we're only noticing the towns that screwed up, not the one that wisely chose NOT to implement LEDs for these reasons. Or the ones that made the calculated choice that, based on snowfall patters in their region, energy savings, savings on maintenance costs, vs the higher purchase price of the LEDs, that the LEDs were probably the right choice.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Thank you for the thoughtful response.

ams6110 8y ago

Honestly because the switch to LEDs has been at least as much about virtue signaling as any real savings. The energy savings will eventually pay for the LED conversion, but it takes a while. As in years. And as to unintended side effects, well we're just discovering those.

st26 8y ago
Where's your numbers for that? My local muni operates about 10,000 street lights. If HPS averages 400W apiece, that's 4 megawatts, run for maybe 10 hours a day, at $0.10/kWh that's $4,000 a night... Now if by "years" you meant "two years", then fine, I can believe it- but two years is still a fantastic payoff period. Don't forget HPS burns out pretty regularly too. Tactic my muni is using is simply to replace burnt-out HPS with LED instead of repairing it. Lo, after a few years we're probably half LED.
ambicapter 8y ago
> it takes a while. As in years. Are you somehow surprised that an infrastructure project would take years to pay off?
taneq 8y ago
Payback time on domestic LED bulbs is actually surprisingly quick. We have "100W" LED bulbs that draw around 11W of power, and cost ~$5 each, compared with say $1 for a 100W incandescent light bulb. At 20c/kWh that's 20kWh of electricity, or ~225 hours of run time at 89W of saved power. Even if we only ran a bulb for 3 hours a night, it would pay for itself in two and a half months. I imagine the case for street lighting is even stronger, especially when you start to factor labour costs for bulb replacement as well. And traffic lights would be stronger again, because they're cycling instead of being constantly on, which shortens the filament life significantly.