5 ms·

He may have tried, but his execution wasn't anywhere near Apple's. Instead of suing Apple for money, he should have praise Apple for making his vision a reality

by tyng 16y ago

kls 16y ago
You mean like Apple praised Google for Android? or Microsoft for Windows? I am sorry but Apple is one of the worst offenders when it comes to litigating copycats. I think we need to get rid of software patents all together but historically Apple has never praised copy cats of their original ideas why should this guy be any different? Because it is Apple?
- Samuel_Michon 16y ago
  Is Google's Android better than iOS? Is Microsoft's Windows better than Mac OS X? There are no obvious answers. Now, compare some screenshots of Gelernter's Scopeware and Apple's CoverFlow. In this case it's obvious that Apple's implementation is a lot better, in its presentation as well as its ease of use. There are dozens of cases where Apple took someone else's idea and improved on it, but I can't think of any good examples where the reverse happened.
  - kls 16y ago
    I think you are missing the point, either copying ideas is right or wrong. The quality of the reproduction is irrelevant. The point is that Apple felt that copying their idea was wrong when Google and Microsoft did it, yet they did not feel that it was wrong when they did it to this guy, in fact every graphical OS from Lisa on was founded on Apple copying someones idea, there whole Mac and later IOS industry was founded when apple copied the Xerox Alto. It seems that Apples compass of right or wrong when it comes to copying depends on what side of the fence they are sitting on. Or are you saying that because Apple copies ideas better than others it is OK for them?
    - Samuel_Michon 16y ago
      "either copying ideas is right or wrong" I am perfectly aware of the point you're trying to make. However, that was not what the grandparent, Tyng, was talking about. He suggested that, because Apple improved on Gelernter's idea, Gelernter should've just be grateful that Apple threw its R&D prowerss at it, making it what it is now. You then replied comparing the situation to Microsoft and Google copying Apple's work, which isn't exactly the same thing.
      - kls 16y ago
        Yes it is, why should this guy be grateful, I don't understand why this guy should be grateful. I don't understand what is not clear about that. Apple was not grateful so why should this guy be grateful. I want to know why is their an acceptable double standard? In my personal opinion he should not be anything, Apple should be free to implement anything on their system they want (as well as everyone else) but those are not the rules of engagement. So I want to know, under the current rules of engagement, why is it flattery when the little guy gets copied, but acceptable for the big guys to enforce that they can't be copied. This kind of mentality reinforces the little guy getting victimized and I want to understand how someone comes to such a flawed conclusion. Whether right or wrong the big guys are using patents as a tool in their arsenal, so if those are the ground rules set out by the bigger players then why should a smaller player be flattered and give up advantage to a big company that has been known to use the same tools against others? If the shoe was on the other foot Apple would not consider it flattery (especially if it was superior), they have proved that and that is my point.
        Samuel_Michon 16y ago
        "I don't understand why this guy should be grateful." I wasn't asserting that he should, Tyng was. And I don't want to get into a debate on the validity of software patents, because I'm still undecided on the matter. Tyng stated that Apple improved on Gelernter's idea, and I don't think anyone will disagree with that. You compared the situation to Google and Microsoft copying Apple's ideas. I'm saying that isn't a fair comparison, because there is no consensus on whether Android is significantly better than iOS and whether Windows is significantly better than Mac OS. "Apple was not grateful [for the creation of Windows and Android] so why should this guy be grateful." I very much doubt that Apple saw the initial versions of Windows and Android as major improvements over their own OSes. Imitation can be the sincerest form of flattery, but doing it badly is simply insulting. I think it's hard to tell what Apple would do if some company took Apple's ideas and made significant improvements to them, since I can't recall such an event ever happening. Well, maybe one: the Palm Pilot versus the Newton MessagePad. And I don't think Apple sued USRobotics over it.

He may have tried, but his execution wasn't anywhere near Apple's. Instead of suing Apple for money, he should have praise Apple for making his vision a reality

by tyng 16y ago

He may have tried, but his execution wasn't anywhere near Apple's. Instead of suing Apple for money, he should have praise Apple for making his vision a reality

kls 16y ago

You mean like Apple praised Google for Android? or Microsoft for Windows? I am sorry but Apple is one of the worst offenders when it comes to litigating copycats. I think we need to get rid of software patents all together but historically Apple has never praised copy cats of their original ideas why should this guy be any different? Because it is Apple?

Samuel_Michon 16y ago
Is Google's Android better than iOS? Is Microsoft's Windows better than Mac OS X? There are no obvious answers. Now, compare some screenshots of Gelernter's Scopeware and Apple's CoverFlow. In this case it's obvious that Apple's implementation is a lot better, in its presentation as well as its ease of use. There are dozens of cases where Apple took someone else's idea and improved on it, but I can't think of any good examples where the reverse happened.
- kls 16y ago
  I think you are missing the point, either copying ideas is right or wrong. The quality of the reproduction is irrelevant. The point is that Apple felt that copying their idea was wrong when Google and Microsoft did it, yet they did not feel that it was wrong when they did it to this guy, in fact every graphical OS from Lisa on was founded on Apple copying someones idea, there whole Mac and later IOS industry was founded when apple copied the Xerox Alto. It seems that Apples compass of right or wrong when it comes to copying depends on what side of the fence they are sitting on. Or are you saying that because Apple copies ideas better than others it is OK for them?
  - Samuel_Michon 16y ago
    "either copying ideas is right or wrong" I am perfectly aware of the point you're trying to make. However, that was not what the grandparent, Tyng, was talking about. He suggested that, because Apple improved on Gelernter's idea, Gelernter should've just be grateful that Apple threw its R&D prowerss at it, making it what it is now. You then replied comparing the situation to Microsoft and Google copying Apple's work, which isn't exactly the same thing.
    - kls 16y ago
      Yes it is, why should this guy be grateful, I don't understand why this guy should be grateful. I don't understand what is not clear about that. Apple was not grateful so why should this guy be grateful. I want to know why is their an acceptable double standard? In my personal opinion he should not be anything, Apple should be free to implement anything on their system they want (as well as everyone else) but those are not the rules of engagement. So I want to know, under the current rules of engagement, why is it flattery when the little guy gets copied, but acceptable for the big guys to enforce that they can't be copied. This kind of mentality reinforces the little guy getting victimized and I want to understand how someone comes to such a flawed conclusion. Whether right or wrong the big guys are using patents as a tool in their arsenal, so if those are the ground rules set out by the bigger players then why should a smaller player be flattered and give up advantage to a big company that has been known to use the same tools against others? If the shoe was on the other foot Apple would not consider it flattery (especially if it was superior), they have proved that and that is my point.
      - Samuel_Michon 16y ago
        "I don't understand why this guy should be grateful." I wasn't asserting that he should, Tyng was. And I don't want to get into a debate on the validity of software patents, because I'm still undecided on the matter. Tyng stated that Apple improved on Gelernter's idea, and I don't think anyone will disagree with that. You compared the situation to Google and Microsoft copying Apple's ideas. I'm saying that isn't a fair comparison, because there is no consensus on whether Android is significantly better than iOS and whether Windows is significantly better than Mac OS. "Apple was not grateful [for the creation of Windows and Android] so why should this guy be grateful." I very much doubt that Apple saw the initial versions of Windows and Android as major improvements over their own OSes. Imitation can be the sincerest form of flattery, but doing it badly is simply insulting. I think it's hard to tell what Apple would do if some company took Apple's ideas and made significant improvements to them, since I can't recall such an event ever happening. Well, maybe one: the Palm Pilot versus the Newton MessagePad. And I don't think Apple sued USRobotics over it.