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HN downvotes anything critical of apple, so heres my criticisms- >Anti consumer- Proprietary hardware, non standard devices, and a constant cornering of user c

HN downvotes anything critical of apple, so heres my criticisms- >Anti consumer- Proprietary hardware, non standard devices, and a constant cornering of user content. I remember burning CDs from Itunes and ripping them back just to use them on my mp3 player... The hardware is 2x the price of non Apple brand, this should come as no surprise. >Anti developer- It sounds like at bare minimum I will need a 600 dollar refurbished apple mini to compile my app. And pay for yearly development. And apple intentionally breaks code. Not to mention prior to 2014, they were harsh on app developers denying many people's hard work. I cannot understand the fandom on HN, why would anyone be a fan of such an aggressive company? EDIT: 3 downvotes and 0 reasons why? Did Apple buy accounts on HN?

ryanwaggoner 8y ago
On the consumer side, I don't want "standard devices". I want excellent hardware with excellent software, and I want it to just work. Apple isn't perfect here, but they're much better than their competition. I also like their stance on privacy, and the fact that their business model is aligned with their stance. Also, didn't iTunes lead the charge to ditch DRM? On the developer side, I'm an iOS dev. It might be frustrating that Apple doesn't make their toolchain available to you on a Linux box, but I'm actually really glad. It's complex and frustrating enough without them trying to support hobby developers on other platforms. This sounds harsh, but if you don't care about / enjoy Apple's platforms enough to spend $600 to develop on them, they probably are better off without you developing for those platforms. Also, Apple doesn't generally "intentionally break code". They deprecate stuff all the time, which I appreciate both as a consumer and developer. It keeps the platform relatively cruft-free and ensures that I don't have to make my apps support iOS 1.0 through 12.0. All of the above is generally my opinion, so if you're going to argue that I actually do want standard devices, or that I should want Apple dev on Linux, or that deprecating things on their platforms shouldn't be my preferred approach, don't bother. So yes, I'm a fan of Apple, because I value things differently than you, and their actions align with my values.
nicky0 8y ago
The downvotes are because your comment does not address the content of the article in question. Instead, you have merely posted a generic criticism of Apple, going over the same old talking points we have all heard before. Thus, your comment does not constitute a quality contribution to this thread.
briandear 8y ago
Non standard devices? Who makes those standards and why? I had a “standard” Windows computer for many years and it was driver hell. For almost any reasonably modern peripheral, I can plug it into my Mac and it works. Macs use “standard” USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports. Some other laptops still require dedicated and proprietary chargers. Lightning is proprietary, however, it’s only used for Apple devices, so that doesn’t make much difference. It isn’t like Apple requires lightning for third party external drives. Internet Explorer was standard. Chrome has become a standard — both browsers got downright proprietary with all of their “standards.” Have to buy a Mac to build your Mac/iOS apps? I don’t see what is so tragic about having to actually use the device for which you are developing. How can you run a Mac App on Windows or Linux? It seems like to even do basic testing you should be testing on Mac Harware. You can buy a brand new Mini for $499. Seems like a small price if you are a “professional” developer. As far as intentionally breaking code, have you thought about why that happens? I assure you that there isn’t some secret group at Cupertino trying to figure out how best to annoy developers. As far as “why Apple” — as an example, I have a 2010 iMac with 16GB RAM running High Sierra that is far more stable and reliable than a 2010 Dell running the latest Windows. That’s subjective, but the point is that Macs have a long lifespan and thus a high resale value. Also privacy and security — Apple cares about it. They don’t always get it right, but how often have Macs or iOS been infected with malware compared to other platforms? And there is UX. Macs are easier to use for most people that have tried them. iPhone satisfaction ratings are over 95%. That means something. Of course Apple isn’t perfect, but find a piece of software or hardware that is — Apple gets things right far more than they get things wrong. Look at the various incarnations of Windows as a comparison and all the controversy they have generated. Don’t like Apple? Don’t buy their stuff and stop trying to sell to people that do. You are free to go and sell wherever you want. As far as the Apple developer fee — if $99 per year is too expensive, then don’t pay it and go somewhere else. There are enough generic me-too apps on the store already. If you had something unique and valuable, you’d make plenty of money so that $99 would be insignificant anyway.
mikec3010 8y ago
> why would anyone be a fan of such an aggressive company? For all their faults, they brought personal computing quality out of the gutter and actually gave a fuck about UX. To this day, you can't even reliably search for local files on a win10 system. They literally laid off their QA department.
- rootlocus 8y ago
  > To this day, you can't even reliably search for local files on a win10 system. They literally laid off their QA department. I would've thought this to be an exaggeration, but I have the discord app installed, it's automatically starting at boot, It's pinned to the task bar, but when I search for "discord" in the start menu, it gives me a worthless "search the web" result. It's almost insulting...
  - opencl 8y ago
    Ironically there's a Search and Indexing Troubleshooting Wizard built into Windows 10 because the feature is so unreliable but the Start Menu search doesn't find it even when it's working properly.
    - mikec3010 8y ago
      The conspiracy theorist in me says they broke it on purpose to encourage users to migrate to azure or onedrive. Even on 3+ghz CPUs with multi-gbps SSDs, copying hundreds of little files on my win10 OEM pc was painfully slow. I suspect the A/V was scanning every single one. They have every incentive to gimp local file I/O to promote their higher-profit cloud services.
      - opencl 8y ago
        That is the Defender real time protection, loves to hog enormous amounts of CPU during any file I/O, you can disable it temporarily but it very aggressively nags you about it. However it does let you exclude specific folders and will not prevent you from doing things like excluding your entire home folder or even C:\.
dkonofalski 8y ago
You're getting downvotes because your criticism is off-base and completely unrelated to the point at hand. If you don't want to buy Apple products, don't buy them. That doesn't make them anti-consumer. If you don't want to spend the money to develop on the platforms, don't do it. Needing to own a part of the platform in order to develop for it is not anti-developer. For most people that like Apple, both developer and consumer alike, there are pros that vastly outweigh any negatives. Developers, for example, make hundreds of times more income via Apple's platforms than they do off Android. The investment in the hardware is part of that. It's an investment. For consumers, it's an investment in a product that they feel is better for them. Your criticisms are nothing more than opinions. They don't really belong here.

ryanwaggoner 8y ago

On the consumer side, I don't want "standard devices". I want excellent hardware with excellent software, and I want it to just work. Apple isn't perfect here, but they're much better than their competition. I also like their stance on privacy, and the fact that their business model is aligned with their stance. Also, didn't iTunes lead the charge to ditch DRM? On the developer side, I'm an iOS dev. It might be frustrating that Apple doesn't make their toolchain available to you on a Linux box, but I'm actually really glad. It's complex and frustrating enough without them trying to support hobby developers on other platforms. This sounds harsh, but if you don't care about / enjoy Apple's platforms enough to spend $600 to develop on them, they probably are better off without you developing for those platforms. Also, Apple doesn't generally "intentionally break code". They deprecate stuff all the time, which I appreciate both as a consumer and developer. It keeps the platform relatively cruft-free and ensures that I don't have to make my apps support iOS 1.0 through 12.0. All of the above is generally my opinion, so if you're going to argue that I actually do want standard devices, or that I should want Apple dev on Linux, or that deprecating things on their platforms shouldn't be my preferred approach, don't bother. So yes, I'm a fan of Apple, because I value things differently than you, and their actions align with my values.

nicky0 8y ago

The downvotes are because your comment does not address the content of the article in question. Instead, you have merely posted a generic criticism of Apple, going over the same old talking points we have all heard before. Thus, your comment does not constitute a quality contribution to this thread.

briandear 8y ago

Non standard devices? Who makes those standards and why? I had a “standard” Windows computer for many years and it was driver hell. For almost any reasonably modern peripheral, I can plug it into my Mac and it works. Macs use “standard” USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports. Some other laptops still require dedicated and proprietary chargers. Lightning is proprietary, however, it’s only used for Apple devices, so that doesn’t make much difference. It isn’t like Apple requires lightning for third party external drives. Internet Explorer was standard. Chrome has become a standard — both browsers got downright proprietary with all of their “standards.” Have to buy a Mac to build your Mac/iOS apps? I don’t see what is so tragic about having to actually use the device for which you are developing. How can you run a Mac App on Windows or Linux? It seems like to even do basic testing you should be testing on Mac Harware. You can buy a brand new Mini for $499. Seems like a small price if you are a “professional” developer. As far as intentionally breaking code, have you thought about why that happens? I assure you that there isn’t some secret group at Cupertino trying to figure out how best to annoy developers. As far as “why Apple” — as an example, I have a 2010 iMac with 16GB RAM running High Sierra that is far more stable and reliable than a 2010 Dell running the latest Windows. That’s subjective, but the point is that Macs have a long lifespan and thus a high resale value. Also privacy and security — Apple cares about it. They don’t always get it right, but how often have Macs or iOS been infected with malware compared to other platforms? And there is UX. Macs are easier to use for most people that have tried them. iPhone satisfaction ratings are over 95%. That means something. Of course Apple isn’t perfect, but find a piece of software or hardware that is — Apple gets things right far more than they get things wrong. Look at the various incarnations of Windows as a comparison and all the controversy they have generated. Don’t like Apple? Don’t buy their stuff and stop trying to sell to people that do. You are free to go and sell wherever you want. As far as the Apple developer fee — if $99 per year is too expensive, then don’t pay it and go somewhere else. There are enough generic me-too apps on the store already. If you had something unique and valuable, you’d make plenty of money so that $99 would be insignificant anyway.

mikec3010 8y ago

> why would anyone be a fan of such an aggressive company? For all their faults, they brought personal computing quality out of the gutter and actually gave a fuck about UX. To this day, you can't even reliably search for local files on a win10 system. They literally laid off their QA department.

rootlocus 8y ago
> To this day, you can't even reliably search for local files on a win10 system. They literally laid off their QA department. I would've thought this to be an exaggeration, but I have the discord app installed, it's automatically starting at boot, It's pinned to the task bar, but when I search for "discord" in the start menu, it gives me a worthless "search the web" result. It's almost insulting...
- opencl 8y ago
  Ironically there's a Search and Indexing Troubleshooting Wizard built into Windows 10 because the feature is so unreliable but the Start Menu search doesn't find it even when it's working properly.
  - mikec3010 8y ago
    The conspiracy theorist in me says they broke it on purpose to encourage users to migrate to azure or onedrive. Even on 3+ghz CPUs with multi-gbps SSDs, copying hundreds of little files on my win10 OEM pc was painfully slow. I suspect the A/V was scanning every single one. They have every incentive to gimp local file I/O to promote their higher-profit cloud services.
    - opencl 8y ago
      That is the Defender real time protection, loves to hog enormous amounts of CPU during any file I/O, you can disable it temporarily but it very aggressively nags you about it. However it does let you exclude specific folders and will not prevent you from doing things like excluding your entire home folder or even C:\.

dkonofalski 8y ago

You're getting downvotes because your criticism is off-base and completely unrelated to the point at hand. If you don't want to buy Apple products, don't buy them. That doesn't make them anti-consumer. If you don't want to spend the money to develop on the platforms, don't do it. Needing to own a part of the platform in order to develop for it is not anti-developer. For most people that like Apple, both developer and consumer alike, there are pros that vastly outweigh any negatives. Developers, for example, make hundreds of times more income via Apple's platforms than they do off Android. The investment in the hardware is part of that. It's an investment. For consumers, it's an investment in a product that they feel is better for them. Your criticisms are nothing more than opinions. They don't really belong here.