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> Driving the surge, the study suggests, is a three-decade shift of financial risk from government and employers to individuals, who are bearing an ever-greater

> Driving the surge, the study suggests, is a three-decade shift of financial risk from government and employers to individuals, who are bearing an ever-greater responsibility for their own financial well-being as the social safety net shrinks. This is going to be an increasingly serious problem over the next few decades. Expect bankruptcy filings to increase across the board, across all generations going forward. This is my main critique of the "sharing" economy and tech darlings like Uber and Lyft, who have accelerated this anti-labor trend. What I find especially ironic here is that these services are currently only economically viable because of VCs subsidizing the costs, who themselves source a large percentage of their funding from traditional employee pension pools, etc. But of course it's all worth it because these "sharing" companies are just sooooo convenient.

maxxxxx 8y ago
With pensions and stuff there was a well defined path for people to get old and survive. What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old? In general, society really needs to think what should happen with older people who aren't wealthy.
- madengr 8y ago
  "What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old?" Soylent Green
- rukittenme 8y ago
  > What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old? Save a minimum of $5500/year or 10% of your annual salary. Whichever is greater (up to your cap).
  - mirimir 8y ago
    I think that you forgot the /s tag.
    - rukittenme 8y ago
      I did not. The parent comment asked for a plan and I gave him one. How you meet the objective is up to the individual.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Do you seriously think that most Uber drivers are earning enough, net after expenses, to manage that?
        rukittenme 8y ago
        It's a meaningless question. "Uber drivers" isn't well defined. How much do most Uber drivers earn? What are their living situations? Do they have multiple jobs? How many hours do Uber drivers work? A better question would be: "do you think an Uber driver who (a) lives alone (b) in a two bedroom apartment (c) in the heart of San Francisco and (d) works 20 hours per week will be able to save $5500/year?" The answer is no. But there is a lot more to the problem than just "Uber driver".
        mirimir 8y ago
        Sure, "Uber drivers" isn't well defined. But from what I've read, for any reasonable definition, the percentage able to save that much is arguably small. Indeed, it's arguable that most of them are losing money.
        rukittenme 8y ago
        What you've read (and I've also seen though not studied in any depth) is that a statistical category of person called "Uber driver" may lose money. But the statistical category of "Uber driver" is not the same as a "person who drivers for Uber". Consider the argument: "can an Uber driver save for retirement?" If we define Uber driver as: "works for uber exclusively for 40 hours per week". Our answer to the question might be yes or it might be no. Ultimately what matters is the number of people who fall into that category every day for the rest of their lives. If we find no people fit that category or that the people who do fit that category don't fit it for very long then we can safely say the answer to the question is irrelevant. After all, "can unpaid interns save for retirement?" is a meaningless question. It doesn't matter. Statistical categories don't retire. And people who work as unpaid interns do not remain so for very long. A person who drivers for Uber may just need quick, supplemental cash. Cash that may be exclusively funneled into a person's retirement account. If we compel Uber to provide a "living wage" or a retirement package, we may find that those who need quick cash go without it. And people who would have saved for retirement are now not able to.
- gaius 8y ago
  What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old? In the UK they will be covered by the NHS despite their employer practicing industrial-scale evasion of Employer’s NI. That’s a loophole that must be urgently closed tho’ the Government and the Inland Revenue are inexplicably dragging their heels about doing it (indeed the entire “gig economy”)

maxxxxx 8y ago

With pensions and stuff there was a well defined path for people to get old and survive. What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old? In general, society really needs to think what should happen with older people who aren't wealthy.

madengr 8y ago
"What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old?" Soylent Green
rukittenme 8y ago
> What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old? Save a minimum of $5500/year or 10% of your annual salary. Whichever is greater (up to your cap).
- mirimir 8y ago
  I think that you forgot the /s tag.
  - rukittenme 8y ago
    I did not. The parent comment asked for a plan and I gave him one. How you meet the objective is up to the individual.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Do you seriously think that most Uber drivers are earning enough, net after expenses, to manage that?
      - rukittenme 8y ago
        It's a meaningless question. "Uber drivers" isn't well defined. How much do most Uber drivers earn? What are their living situations? Do they have multiple jobs? How many hours do Uber drivers work? A better question would be: "do you think an Uber driver who (a) lives alone (b) in a two bedroom apartment (c) in the heart of San Francisco and (d) works 20 hours per week will be able to save $5500/year?" The answer is no. But there is a lot more to the problem than just "Uber driver".
        mirimir 8y ago
        Sure, "Uber drivers" isn't well defined. But from what I've read, for any reasonable definition, the percentage able to save that much is arguably small. Indeed, it's arguable that most of them are losing money.
        rukittenme 8y ago
        What you've read (and I've also seen though not studied in any depth) is that a statistical category of person called "Uber driver" may lose money. But the statistical category of "Uber driver" is not the same as a "person who drivers for Uber". Consider the argument: "can an Uber driver save for retirement?" If we define Uber driver as: "works for uber exclusively for 40 hours per week". Our answer to the question might be yes or it might be no. Ultimately what matters is the number of people who fall into that category every day for the rest of their lives. If we find no people fit that category or that the people who do fit that category don't fit it for very long then we can safely say the answer to the question is irrelevant. After all, "can unpaid interns save for retirement?" is a meaningless question. It doesn't matter. Statistical categories don't retire. And people who work as unpaid interns do not remain so for very long. A person who drivers for Uber may just need quick, supplemental cash. Cash that may be exclusively funneled into a person's retirement account. If we compel Uber to provide a "living wage" or a retirement package, we may find that those who need quick cash go without it. And people who would have saved for retirement are now not able to.
gaius 8y ago
What's the plan for an Uber driver when they get old? In the UK they will be covered by the NHS despite their employer practicing industrial-scale evasion of Employer’s NI. That’s a loophole that must be urgently closed tho’ the Government and the Inland Revenue are inexplicably dragging their heels about doing it (indeed the entire “gig economy”)