3 ms·

The bots also have perfect knowledge of enemy hp/mana and the relative positioning through the API. In fact the bots are gifted perfect micromanagement through

by skgoa 8y ago

The bots also have perfect knowledge of enemy hp/mana and the relative positioning through the API. In fact the bots are gifted perfect micromanagement through the API. This enables them to do things most humeans wouldn't try, because the risk of messing up and giving the enemy a huge advantage is too high.

yvdriess 8y ago
The API does not give the bots extra information compared to a human player. The micro- and reaction time edge is also being dulled to being more human-like. They still have superhuman team fight execution though. "We’ve increased the reaction time of OpenAI Five from 80ms to 200ms. This reaction time is much closer to human level, though we haven’t seen evidence of changes in gameplay as OpenAI Five’s strength comes more from teamwork and coordination than reflexes."
- Super_Jambo 8y ago
  Part of the advantage in teamwork and coordination is presumably that they don't have a limitation on what data they can view at once? Dota & HON had people mod their client to give an optional bigger FOV resulting in bans for cheating. I'd assume the bots don't have to specify their screen position, plus no orientation response means a limitation on this wouldn't be meaningful anyway. What I'm saying is there's a big difference between 'I see lion on the mini-map down there' and 'lion showed for 1 frame on the other side of the map, his HP is 324, he has a TP scroll, no boots and a health pot.' Something I noticed is the bots seem to like range and AoE far more than the normal human meta. The humans being limited in the distance they can see to one screen were frequently just failing to appreciate how dangerous 2-3 bots half a screen away were to them. Quite a few teamfight wins came from the bots inevitably causing far more damage to the entire enemy team via heros like DP & Gyro. But this isn't really perfect teamfight execution. I'd have really liked to see a mirror match.
  - skgoa 8y ago
    Correct, the bots "see" the entire map. Well, the parts that are not hidden by 'fog of war'.
- skgoa 8y ago
  > The API does not give the bots extra information compared to a human player. Well, maybe not technically, but it does make it much much easier to take in all of that info and process it. You can't expect a human player to keep a perfect record of all heroes' hp, mana, all damage being dealt, all abilities being used etc. during a chaotic fight, yet the API yields this information effortlessly. > The micro- and reaction time edge is also being dulled to being more human-like. And yet, the bots showed superhuman near instant reaction times. 200ms is a very low amount to process very complex/confusing audiovisual data and react precisely.
  - komali2 8y ago
    I think you're just kind of hitting on the real difference between human and bots anyway. Regardless of if the information comes from the machine viewing the damage count and knowing exactly how much HP a given hero has at that level/gear/just by looking at the bar, or if the information comes from an API, the machine has a perfect memory of this and all other variables, whereas humans don't.

by skgoa 8y ago

yvdriess 8y ago

The API does not give the bots extra information compared to a human player. The micro- and reaction time edge is also being dulled to being more human-like. They still have superhuman team fight execution though. "We’ve increased the reaction time of OpenAI Five from 80ms to 200ms. This reaction time is much closer to human level, though we haven’t seen evidence of changes in gameplay as OpenAI Five’s strength comes more from teamwork and coordination than reflexes."

Super_Jambo 8y ago
Part of the advantage in teamwork and coordination is presumably that they don't have a limitation on what data they can view at once? Dota & HON had people mod their client to give an optional bigger FOV resulting in bans for cheating. I'd assume the bots don't have to specify their screen position, plus no orientation response means a limitation on this wouldn't be meaningful anyway. What I'm saying is there's a big difference between 'I see lion on the mini-map down there' and 'lion showed for 1 frame on the other side of the map, his HP is 324, he has a TP scroll, no boots and a health pot.' Something I noticed is the bots seem to like range and AoE far more than the normal human meta. The humans being limited in the distance they can see to one screen were frequently just failing to appreciate how dangerous 2-3 bots half a screen away were to them. Quite a few teamfight wins came from the bots inevitably causing far more damage to the entire enemy team via heros like DP & Gyro. But this isn't really perfect teamfight execution. I'd have really liked to see a mirror match.
- skgoa 8y ago
  Correct, the bots "see" the entire map. Well, the parts that are not hidden by 'fog of war'.
skgoa 8y ago
> The API does not give the bots extra information compared to a human player. Well, maybe not technically, but it does make it much much easier to take in all of that info and process it. You can't expect a human player to keep a perfect record of all heroes' hp, mana, all damage being dealt, all abilities being used etc. during a chaotic fight, yet the API yields this information effortlessly. > The micro- and reaction time edge is also being dulled to being more human-like. And yet, the bots showed superhuman near instant reaction times. 200ms is a very low amount to process very complex/confusing audiovisual data and react precisely.
- komali2 8y ago
  I think you're just kind of hitting on the real difference between human and bots anyway. Regardless of if the information comes from the machine viewing the damage count and knowing exactly how much HP a given hero has at that level/gear/just by looking at the bar, or if the information comes from an API, the machine has a perfect memory of this and all other variables, whereas humans don't.