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I'm not sure I really understood this - a mixture of skimming and the author implying things without stating then directly. The author suggests that Vice misle

I'm not sure I really understood this - a mixture of skimming and the author implying things without stating then directly. The author suggests that Vice misled her in early talks, gathered information about her that should've been off limits for the story but shared it anyway despite her pleas for them not to. My first read of this was that she's gay and was concerned how that would look to a Chinese audience and Vice exploited that for attention. I skimmed the Vice article too - https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-s... and that didn't really seem to be it. I have to confess I couldn't understand what she objected to in the Vice article. However, as the author writes about the Vice editors, I'm not in any position to understand what is or isn't concerning to share for a Chinese woman with a large social media following living in China. Without really understanding what the disagreement is I have to withhold my judgment. However, if I'm ever in a position where Vice would want to interview me I'd probably turn them down after reading this purely out of caution. The complaint about Sarah Jeong seems a bit more clear - Jeong dismissed the author's concerns claiming to be able to evaluate them fairly because they were both Asian women. Jeong's perspective though is as an ethnic Korean who has lived in the US pretty much her entire life (moved to the US at age 3) which is clearly a very different perspective than the author who is a Chinese citizen. Given what else we know about Jeong I don't think it's that surprising that she's insensitive about race.

camillomiller 8y ago
Wu’s position is complicated. She can’t say clearly what she is contending, because -from what I gather- that would be a sort of confession that Chinese authorities would use against her. The result is that her arguments come out as shallower then they are. I still think that the bullying is clear, tho, regardless of the core issue
- nichtich 8y ago
  The mere existence of Wu is an outlier in China (and possibly in rest of the world). As anyone that closely follows Chinese politics know, the CCP is not keen on outspoken/unique people. Rappers has been banned for rapping about money and women (!); women have been arrested for promoting awareness of sexual harassment. I think Wu is simply trying (and failing) to make herself not more controversial than already is.
turbinerneiter 8y ago
Wu was target of a Reddit/4chan harassment campaign: they claimed her white boyfriend actually builds her projects. Wu told VICE that for the interview, all questions regarding relationship, etc. are off limits. VICE went ahead and made it a topic. Wu refused to answer. In the article, VICE retold the 4chan claims, making Wu's refusal to answer a new nugget for the 4chaners to claim her guilty. Jeong offhandedly dismissed Wu's troubles and acted as expert on the issue purely on being of Asian descent, which has nothing to do with living in PRC. Jeong, who is unjustly the target of another ridiculous and purely vile 4chan harassment campaign, decided to not stand up for Wu, when she was the target. Instead she dismissed her struggle and sided with the white male VICE editor.
- Tomte 8y ago
  > acted as expert on the issue purely on being of Asian descent Not quite, she wrote that she asked a woman from the PRC (but I think now living in America). Still, not much better.
- BurningCycles 8y ago
  >who is unjustly the target of another ridiculous and purely vile 4chan harassment campaign I'm assuming this is about more than them claiming her boyfriend builds her projects, any insight you can shed ?
  - turbinerneiter 8y ago
    The 4chan campaign against Wu was based around claiming she doesn't build her projects herself, driven by racism and sexism. I guess Wu couldn't even be bothered by people being racist and sexist towards here, but claiming she isn't authentic and doesn't have tech-skills awakes her tiger. She's a hacker, her tech-cred is everything. The campaign against Jeong is some bs about old tweets where she mimicked the racism she gets back, recast as racism against white people. Wu and all her followers would happily stand with Jeong against this bs (the same racist and sexist garbage Wu has to fight) - if she wouldn't have sided with the attackers when the same thing happened to Wu.
zasz 8y ago
I don't quite get it either, but at the very least, she talked to Vice before they published the article and said she wanted her relationship status and sexuality to not be discussed, and then Vice put in several paragraphs about her relationship status anyway (from the original Vice article at https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-s..., "Wu told me she didn’t want to discuss her marital status, but before publishing the piece, I followed up with her. I hoped to discuss the Reddit conspiracy theory that claimed someone she’s in a relationship with was behind her work.") If someone says that X is important and to please not do it, and you do X anyway, that's crappy behavior. edit: found a Twitter thread on Chinese political dynamics. It looks like you can be arrested for simply being a vocal feminist: https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552 https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552 Yikes. "so now we're back at the vice article. apart from the sexism/racism, what would have been so bad about rebutting the conspiracy theory that she's the "face" of a white man who's really responsible for everything she does?" "i can think of a few potential issues that could tip the scales when it comes to safety concerns. for one, rebutting the conspiracy theory and framing it as a feminist issue may require or imply a more overtly political stance on feminism, which we've seen can be dangerous."
- danso 8y ago
  > and said she wanted her relationship status and sexuality to not be discussed, and then Vice put in several paragraphs about her relationship status anyway I was confused by the timeline. My impression is that Vice emailed her wanting to ask about the personal accusations. Wu saw this as breaking the agreement and went public before the article was published. The mention of her relationship in the subsequently published article refers only to this dispute between Wu and Vice, and AFAIK it’s not mentioned elsewhere in the article.
  - zasz 8y ago
    Ahh, hm, according to this reddit comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/89br5e/whats_going_on_with_sexycyborg_and_vice_magazine/dzb53lm/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=front&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=OutOfTheLoop https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/89br5e/whats_...) you're right. It still seems like she said, I don't want to discuss X, Vice said, let's discuss X anyway. Even though that happened prior to publishing the piece, the meta-discussion of X shouldn't have made it into the final piece. If someone says a topic is off-limits, and you continue bring it up anyway, that's kinda douchey. I'm not going to defend attacking Vice on Twitter before the article got published, but the final product is definitely still douchey.
abvdasker 8y ago
If you read the Vice article though it's incredibly flattering to Wu. This isn't some hit piece. Yes, it does mention the online conspiracy theories, but it takes a pretty firm stand against them. It's confusing because Wu's reactions to the Vice article just don't seem proportional at all. Maybe there's something that hasn't yet been disclosed about the interview.
- lifeformed 8y ago
  This thread [1] sheds some light on why it might not seem like a big deal to us, but would be to someone in China. [1] https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552 https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552
  - blakekrifg 8y ago
    The thread is a huge reach; nothing but tying vague data points and using the tired cliche of the big bad chinese govt as a bogeyman. The CCP will act, like the recent temp SSH ban, when it feels it has to/has gone out of control.
    - js8 8y ago
      What the government will actually do doesn't matter. If the person giving interview has worries about something, even if it is obvious to everybody else that it is them being overly paranoid, shouldn't it still be the ethical responsibility of journalist to respect their wish? (Unless talking about it is in the public interest.)
- didibus 8y ago
  I don't think any of this matters. It seems the issue is, whatever was mentioned in the article could and maybe have put her in trouble with local authorities. She asked them not to mention it, and they still did. Putting her at risk for no good reasons.
busterarm 8y ago
> However, if I'm ever in a position where Vice would want to interview me I'd probably turn them down after reading this purely out of caution. Motherboard and Vice as a whole have in the past published stories that I'm directly or tangentially involved in and gotten the facts completely backwards on multiple occasions. Always in a way that tells a more sensational story. I wouldn't be involved with that publication -- full stop. They've even doubled down on the Sugar Weasel story 5 years later, after it being pointed out to them repeatedly that it was factually incorrect.

camillomiller 8y ago

Wu’s position is complicated. She can’t say clearly what she is contending, because -from what I gather- that would be a sort of confession that Chinese authorities would use against her. The result is that her arguments come out as shallower then they are. I still think that the bullying is clear, tho, regardless of the core issue

nichtich 8y ago
The mere existence of Wu is an outlier in China (and possibly in rest of the world). As anyone that closely follows Chinese politics know, the CCP is not keen on outspoken/unique people. Rappers has been banned for rapping about money and women (!); women have been arrested for promoting awareness of sexual harassment. I think Wu is simply trying (and failing) to make herself not more controversial than already is.

turbinerneiter 8y ago

Wu was target of a Reddit/4chan harassment campaign: they claimed her white boyfriend actually builds her projects. Wu told VICE that for the interview, all questions regarding relationship, etc. are off limits. VICE went ahead and made it a topic. Wu refused to answer. In the article, VICE retold the 4chan claims, making Wu's refusal to answer a new nugget for the 4chaners to claim her guilty. Jeong offhandedly dismissed Wu's troubles and acted as expert on the issue purely on being of Asian descent, which has nothing to do with living in PRC. Jeong, who is unjustly the target of another ridiculous and purely vile 4chan harassment campaign, decided to not stand up for Wu, when she was the target. Instead she dismissed her struggle and sided with the white male VICE editor.

Tomte 8y ago
> acted as expert on the issue purely on being of Asian descent Not quite, she wrote that she asked a woman from the PRC (but I think now living in America). Still, not much better.
BurningCycles 8y ago
>who is unjustly the target of another ridiculous and purely vile 4chan harassment campaign I'm assuming this is about more than them claiming her boyfriend builds her projects, any insight you can shed ?
- turbinerneiter 8y ago
  The 4chan campaign against Wu was based around claiming she doesn't build her projects herself, driven by racism and sexism. I guess Wu couldn't even be bothered by people being racist and sexist towards here, but claiming she isn't authentic and doesn't have tech-skills awakes her tiger. She's a hacker, her tech-cred is everything. The campaign against Jeong is some bs about old tweets where she mimicked the racism she gets back, recast as racism against white people. Wu and all her followers would happily stand with Jeong against this bs (the same racist and sexist garbage Wu has to fight) - if she wouldn't have sided with the attackers when the same thing happened to Wu.

zasz 8y ago

I don't quite get it either, but at the very least, she talked to Vice before they published the article and said she wanted her relationship status and sexuality to not be discussed, and then Vice put in several paragraphs about her relationship status anyway (from the original Vice article at https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-s..., "Wu told me she didn’t want to discuss her marital status, but before publishing the piece, I followed up with her. I hoped to discuss the Reddit conspiracy theory that claimed someone she’s in a relationship with was behind her work.") If someone says that X is important and to please not do it, and you do X anyway, that's crappy behavior. edit: found a Twitter thread on Chinese political dynamics. It looks like you can be arrested for simply being a vocal feminist: https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552 https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552 Yikes. "so now we're back at the vice article. apart from the sexism/racism, what would have been so bad about rebutting the conspiracy theory that she's the "face" of a white man who's really responsible for everything she does?" "i can think of a few potential issues that could tip the scales when it comes to safety concerns. for one, rebutting the conspiracy theory and framing it as a feminist issue may require or imply a more overtly political stance on feminism, which we've seen can be dangerous."

danso 8y ago
> and said she wanted her relationship status and sexuality to not be discussed, and then Vice put in several paragraphs about her relationship status anyway I was confused by the timeline. My impression is that Vice emailed her wanting to ask about the personal accusations. Wu saw this as breaking the agreement and went public before the article was published. The mention of her relationship in the subsequently published article refers only to this dispute between Wu and Vice, and AFAIK it’s not mentioned elsewhere in the article.
- zasz 8y ago
  Ahh, hm, according to this reddit comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/89br5e/whats_going_on_with_sexycyborg_and_vice_magazine/dzb53lm/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=front&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=OutOfTheLoop https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/89br5e/whats_...) you're right. It still seems like she said, I don't want to discuss X, Vice said, let's discuss X anyway. Even though that happened prior to publishing the piece, the meta-discussion of X shouldn't have made it into the final piece. If someone says a topic is off-limits, and you continue bring it up anyway, that's kinda douchey. I'm not going to defend attacking Vice on Twitter before the article got published, but the final product is definitely still douchey.

abvdasker 8y ago

If you read the Vice article though it's incredibly flattering to Wu. This isn't some hit piece. Yes, it does mention the online conspiracy theories, but it takes a pretty firm stand against them. It's confusing because Wu's reactions to the Vice article just don't seem proportional at all. Maybe there's something that hasn't yet been disclosed about the interview.

lifeformed 8y ago
This thread [1] sheds some light on why it might not seem like a big deal to us, but would be to someone in China. [1] https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552 https://twitter.com/jackiehluo/status/982087205907607552
- blakekrifg 8y ago
  The thread is a huge reach; nothing but tying vague data points and using the tired cliche of the big bad chinese govt as a bogeyman. The CCP will act, like the recent temp SSH ban, when it feels it has to/has gone out of control.
  - js8 8y ago
    What the government will actually do doesn't matter. If the person giving interview has worries about something, even if it is obvious to everybody else that it is them being overly paranoid, shouldn't it still be the ethical responsibility of journalist to respect their wish? (Unless talking about it is in the public interest.)
didibus 8y ago
I don't think any of this matters. It seems the issue is, whatever was mentioned in the article could and maybe have put her in trouble with local authorities. She asked them not to mention it, and they still did. Putting her at risk for no good reasons.

busterarm 8y ago

> However, if I'm ever in a position where Vice would want to interview me I'd probably turn them down after reading this purely out of caution. Motherboard and Vice as a whole have in the past published stories that I'm directly or tangentially involved in and gotten the facts completely backwards on multiple occasions. Always in a way that tells a more sensational story. I wouldn't be involved with that publication -- full stop. They've even doubled down on the Sugar Weasel story 5 years later, after it being pointed out to them repeatedly that it was factually incorrect.