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Most people use products, not protocols. We need a more product-oriented approach. Decentralization and federation aren't the first or second item on the list o

by rvense 8y ago

Most people use products, not protocols. We need a more product-oriented approach. Decentralization and federation aren't the first or second item on the list of things most people are looking for, unless we get to "exactly like X, but decentralized." It's wrong that people don't understand or want to not depend on something like Facebook. At least where I am, a lot of people understand the issues. But there's nothing really like it, and life in my city is quite difficult without. It's nothing that can't be fixed though! I think a project like Pixelfed (https://pixelfed.org/ https://pixelfed.org/) is doing things right. We can get there.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
> Most people use products, not protocols. Except e-mail and HTTP. > We need a more product-oriented approach. I think this is how we landed in the current situation. Instead of protocols (IRC, XMPP), you get products (Slack, Hipchat), which are walled gardens. I wish there was a way to incentivize companies to stick to shared protocols, instead of creating their own.
- WJW 8y ago
  The people use products, which then implement some protocol. If you go down to the nearest supermarket and ask what people use to visit their news website of choice, I'm willing to bet that 99+% will name a browser or a phone type and a very very small minority will answer HTTP, even though technically all of them use HTTP. You'll get similar answers with email and SMTP. The general public is just not very interested in the implementation details of technical products, as long as they work well enough and don't cost a lot. If you really want incentivize companies to implement open protocols, find a way for companies to make more money with the open protocol than with the walled garden, because companies is where most of the engineers are and they are the ones that will make it if the incentive is there.
- mike_hearn 8y ago
  Moxie Marlinspike has written about this. It's hard to get people to use shared protocols because they're so hard to iterate. Companies that have a single frontend and single backend and a private protocol they control, can add new features far faster than can be done in a centralised approach. These days I'm more interested in solutions where companies produce decentralised systems, and they provide the leadership and drive necessary, with the right safeguards in place to allow their leadership to be removed and replaced if necessary. Rather than the more traditional approach of trying to not have any leadership, or do it all by committee.

by rvense 8y ago

TeMPOraL 8y ago

> Most people use products, not protocols. Except e-mail and HTTP. > We need a more product-oriented approach. I think this is how we landed in the current situation. Instead of protocols (IRC, XMPP), you get products (Slack, Hipchat), which are walled gardens. I wish there was a way to incentivize companies to stick to shared protocols, instead of creating their own.

WJW 8y ago
The people use products, which then implement some protocol. If you go down to the nearest supermarket and ask what people use to visit their news website of choice, I'm willing to bet that 99+% will name a browser or a phone type and a very very small minority will answer HTTP, even though technically all of them use HTTP. You'll get similar answers with email and SMTP. The general public is just not very interested in the implementation details of technical products, as long as they work well enough and don't cost a lot. If you really want incentivize companies to implement open protocols, find a way for companies to make more money with the open protocol than with the walled garden, because companies is where most of the engineers are and they are the ones that will make it if the incentive is there.
mike_hearn 8y ago
Moxie Marlinspike has written about this. It's hard to get people to use shared protocols because they're so hard to iterate. Companies that have a single frontend and single backend and a private protocol they control, can add new features far faster than can be done in a centralised approach. These days I'm more interested in solutions where companies produce decentralised systems, and they provide the leadership and drive necessary, with the right safeguards in place to allow their leadership to be removed and replaced if necessary. Rather than the more traditional approach of trying to not have any leadership, or do it all by committee.