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Ok. How about we forgive every outstanding mortgage they hold? They're so big, they can take a hit, right? What's that? They don't hold many mortgages? They se

Ok. How about we forgive every outstanding mortgage they hold? They're so big, they can take a hit, right? What's that? They don't hold many mortgages? They sell them all upstream? Then why are they foreclosing? But it's a good point that they have such easy access to the secondary market. How about we cut that off, too? Maybe they are too big to fail overnight. But we can do it in bites. Diminish one piece of their business at a time. Eventually (sooner than you think) they can be trimmed back to a manageable size. But we should start right away. With their track record, each new infraction should result in the death penalty for some piece of their empire. Then again, we don't need the government to punish them. We just need account holders to close their accounts. If people are not willing to do this, why should the government that represents those people get involved? One reasonable thing that the government could do is require WF to pay the refinance fees for anybody who wants to move their mortgage (or even the servicing of their mortgage) away from WF. Then people can impose a personal penalty on WF without any cost to themselves except the time and effort to go through the process. If we are fed up enough, we could even require WF to buy down the refi to the same interest rate. But that would only benefit recent mortgages who should have known better to begin with.

maxxxxx 8y ago
"Then again, we don't need the government to punish them. We just need account holders to close their accounts. If people are not willing to do this, why should the government that represents those people get involved?" Because we have decided that it's easier for everybody if we set standards for businesses so we can trust them to act ethically. When you go to a restaurant you generally can be confident that you won't get poisoned. So if you are a Wells Fargo customer you should be able to trust that you don't get screwed over. It's not realistic to put the burden of monitoring business practices on the individual person. If you ever have dealt with buying a house or medical stuff you should know that understanding the transactions completely would probably be a full time job. That's why we have regulations and laws so people can spend their time more productively.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  >"It's not realistic to put the burden of monitoring business practices on the individual person. If you ever have dealt with buying a house or medical stuff you should know that understanding the transactions completely would probably be a full time job. That's why we have regulations and laws so people can spend their time more productively." I think the point the OP is making is that when the regulatory regime fails to protect customers by taking action against a company with such frequent and glaring violation there is something that can be done as a last resort - voting with your feet. Clearly regulators haven't instilled any real fear into this toxic dump of a bank.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    I guess some of the Twitter outrage that goes to people who have used a wrong word should go to Wells Fargo.
selectodude 8y ago
WF doesn't hold the deed, they merely service the mortgage for a cut of the interest rate. They send the letters, keep track of the taxes and insurance, enforce the foreclosures, etc. They're nothing but a third party. The actual mortgage is held by, generally, holders of mortgage backed securities and/or the US Government via Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
rgbrenner 8y ago
it is interesting that even with all these scandals that account holders haven't punished wf. The accounts fraud was in sept 2016, and looking at their annual report for last year, they increased revenue, increased total deposits, and increased consumer and small business deposits. Maybe that's less growth than they would have gotten.. but it's definitely not a penalty. Just a complete failure by consumers to hold the bank accountable. https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/assets/pdf/about/investor-relations/annual-reports/2017-annual-report.pdf https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/assets/pdf/about/investor-... But at least the fed is putting a cap on their growth now: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wells-fargo-fed/fed-orders-wells-fargo-to-halt-growth-over-compliance-issues-idUSKBN1FM2V9 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wells-fargo-fed/fed-o...
- cannonedhamster 8y ago
  HSBC was literally knowingly laundering cartel money and funding mass murder and got a wrist slap for it. Banks literally drove the global economy into a tailspin with greed and the US taxpayer got the privilege of bailing them out and paying bonuses to the executives. Some minimal protections were put in, but even those were too much for them so they're having the Republicans roll them back for them. America is a country that has ceased being a functioning democracy or society based on actual capitalism. It sure is nice to think about the good ol' days though right?
twblalock 8y ago
I'm a Wells Fargo account holder. I haven't closed my account. I don't really see a reason to. The other big banks are just as amoral, and they would screw their customers in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it. The main difference between Wells Fargo and other banks is that Wells Fargo got caught. I wouldn't consider a local bank or a credit union, because I like being able to find a branch anywhere in the country, and small/local financial institutions are not exempt from bad behavior either. They also tend to have significantly inferior online banking and mobile apps. Closing my account would just mean moving from one amoral giant bank to another.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Do you really need a branch anywhere in the country? My credit union has ATMs everywhere which is good enough for me. I go to a branch maybe once per year if at all.
  - Sodman 8y ago
    I'm with the parent on this... I switched from BoA to a local bank after having a fantastic customer service experience getting a mortgage there, and wanting to support local instead of megacorps. No online check sending, no mobile check deposit, very few ATMs, doesn't accept Zelle, and doesn't integrate with Mint (Mandatory 2FA issues). I miss the BoA features and regret the move.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      My credit union (Baxter) has all of these. I think it's still good to avoid the big guys but I guess you have to check if your local bank or credit union is suitable for you.
  - amaccuish 8y ago
    Is it no so in America, that you can use any ATMs without fees? For example, in the UK, I can use my Nationwide card in a machine outside Barclays. I've only seen one that charges, a standalone one in a club.

maxxxxx 8y ago

"Then again, we don't need the government to punish them. We just need account holders to close their accounts. If people are not willing to do this, why should the government that represents those people get involved?" Because we have decided that it's easier for everybody if we set standards for businesses so we can trust them to act ethically. When you go to a restaurant you generally can be confident that you won't get poisoned. So if you are a Wells Fargo customer you should be able to trust that you don't get screwed over. It's not realistic to put the burden of monitoring business practices on the individual person. If you ever have dealt with buying a house or medical stuff you should know that understanding the transactions completely would probably be a full time job. That's why we have regulations and laws so people can spend their time more productively.

bogomipz 8y ago
>"It's not realistic to put the burden of monitoring business practices on the individual person. If you ever have dealt with buying a house or medical stuff you should know that understanding the transactions completely would probably be a full time job. That's why we have regulations and laws so people can spend their time more productively." I think the point the OP is making is that when the regulatory regime fails to protect customers by taking action against a company with such frequent and glaring violation there is something that can be done as a last resort - voting with your feet. Clearly regulators haven't instilled any real fear into this toxic dump of a bank.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I guess some of the Twitter outrage that goes to people who have used a wrong word should go to Wells Fargo.

selectodude 8y ago

WF doesn't hold the deed, they merely service the mortgage for a cut of the interest rate. They send the letters, keep track of the taxes and insurance, enforce the foreclosures, etc. They're nothing but a third party. The actual mortgage is held by, generally, holders of mortgage backed securities and/or the US Government via Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

rgbrenner 8y ago

it is interesting that even with all these scandals that account holders haven't punished wf. The accounts fraud was in sept 2016, and looking at their annual report for last year, they increased revenue, increased total deposits, and increased consumer and small business deposits. Maybe that's less growth than they would have gotten.. but it's definitely not a penalty. Just a complete failure by consumers to hold the bank accountable. https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/assets/pdf/about/investor-relations/annual-reports/2017-annual-report.pdf https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/assets/pdf/about/investor-... But at least the fed is putting a cap on their growth now: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wells-fargo-fed/fed-orders-wells-fargo-to-halt-growth-over-compliance-issues-idUSKBN1FM2V9 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wells-fargo-fed/fed-o...

cannonedhamster 8y ago
HSBC was literally knowingly laundering cartel money and funding mass murder and got a wrist slap for it. Banks literally drove the global economy into a tailspin with greed and the US taxpayer got the privilege of bailing them out and paying bonuses to the executives. Some minimal protections were put in, but even those were too much for them so they're having the Republicans roll them back for them. America is a country that has ceased being a functioning democracy or society based on actual capitalism. It sure is nice to think about the good ol' days though right?

twblalock 8y ago

I'm a Wells Fargo account holder. I haven't closed my account. I don't really see a reason to. The other big banks are just as amoral, and they would screw their customers in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it. The main difference between Wells Fargo and other banks is that Wells Fargo got caught. I wouldn't consider a local bank or a credit union, because I like being able to find a branch anywhere in the country, and small/local financial institutions are not exempt from bad behavior either. They also tend to have significantly inferior online banking and mobile apps. Closing my account would just mean moving from one amoral giant bank to another.

maxxxxx 8y ago
Do you really need a branch anywhere in the country? My credit union has ATMs everywhere which is good enough for me. I go to a branch maybe once per year if at all.
- Sodman 8y ago
  I'm with the parent on this... I switched from BoA to a local bank after having a fantastic customer service experience getting a mortgage there, and wanting to support local instead of megacorps. No online check sending, no mobile check deposit, very few ATMs, doesn't accept Zelle, and doesn't integrate with Mint (Mandatory 2FA issues). I miss the BoA features and regret the move.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    My credit union (Baxter) has all of these. I think it's still good to avoid the big guys but I guess you have to check if your local bank or credit union is suitable for you.
- amaccuish 8y ago
  Is it no so in America, that you can use any ATMs without fees? For example, in the UK, I can use my Nationwide card in a machine outside Barclays. I've only seen one that charges, a standalone one in a club.