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> the Japanese radical left ... appealed to me as a classic David and Goliath struggle, with a small group of idealistic young anti-war activists well those '

> the Japanese radical left ... appealed to me as a classic David and Goliath struggle, with a small group of idealistic young anti-war activists well those 'David's coordinated with N.Korea to kidnap people to North korea... One famous example: Japanese Airlines 351 - kidnapped a plane & tried to take everyone to N. Korea (but S. Korean gov. fooled them into believing Kimpo airport as a N.Korean one...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_351 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_351

knuththetruth 8y ago
Yes, a small cadre of extremists did this, after they were kicked out of the Japanese Communist Party for being violent nut jobs. They were by no means exemplary of the movement. At the same time, the right-wing in Japan (who was composed of former war criminals and had deep ties to organized crime in the country), was extensively funded and provided counterintelligence on their political opponents by the CIA. This intentional subversion of Japanese democracy guaranteed that the country could be used (at great cost to the Japanese people) as a forward operating base for US imperialism in SE Asia, something which was, and continues to be, deeply unpopular, even by those who are not “radical leftists.” https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contamination-kadena-air-bases-dirty-secret/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contam...
- gedy 8y ago
  I really dislike the characterization of Vietnam as US "Imperialism" when it was more a proxy war between US and USSR and/or futile involvement in another countries civil war. Many, many people appreciated the US fighting back against a communist takeover. Hiding behind "nationalism" was a PR move by revolutionary leadership, and not the real/main driver for it
  - knuththetruth 8y ago
    The country devolved into civil war after the US deposed and had executed the country’s leader, who they had previously corruptly installed, but I guess found insufficiently compliant. If it’s not “imperialism” to fix elections, then overthrow and murder the people you help elected, pushing the country into horrific violence (which you then exacerbate), I’d like to know what rises to the level of your definition of the term. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup
    - buttcoinslol 8y ago
      The country was undergoing decolonization following WWII and got caught in the middle of two nuclear powers who couldn't openly fight each other without risking a nuclear exchange. It's a miracle that Vietnam isn't split in two like Korea. I'm not trying to rationalize the conduct of the US, there's plenty of blood on our hands when it comes to removing/installing foreign leaders, but this was a very complex situation with many players that lasted for over 30 years following the end of WWII. It's disingenuous to reduce it to 'American imperialism'.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        I don’t think “American imperialism” has to be a reduction. American imperialism is one part of a complex picture.
    - buy1get0 8y ago
      to be fair, you should mention what North Vietnamese government did AFTER the war: concentration camps, "New Economic Zones" that forced land from South Vietnamese, and the resulting boat people...
      - gedy 8y ago
        And in the North before any American military involvement. Hence the 1 million plus refugees from the North to South. Most of whom greatly desired to not be under communism, which was clearly the aggressor.
- buy1get0 8y ago
  I'm very impressed with your skill of justification using: > "Yes, a small cadre of extremists did this" Also where's the source for "they were kicked out of the Japanese Communist Party"? Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Communist_Party#Post-war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Communist_Party#Post-... > Then after the Korean War broke out, the party staged some acts of terrorism or sabotage, which resulted in a loss of popular confidence. the plane kidnapping wasn't the only one - it's one of many
- phobosdeimos 8y ago
  To be fair Japanese-US military cooperation has served both sides well. If the US continues to decline Japan will have to find a way to get along with China.
  - buy1get0 8y ago
    > Japan will have to find a way to get along with China It'll be very difficult to "get along with China"... China (PRC) is the New Thug Nation Look at China building "island bases" on South China Sea (ironic name, because the area is bordering Vietnam/Malaysia/Philippines) China's trying to claim what isn't 100% its own out of greed, even though the bordering countries are protesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTPMHC7zHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTPMHC7zHY
  - knuththetruth 8y ago
    I would argue the opposite. US backing of Japan has allowed them to maintain an insular chauvinism relative to their neighbors that has put them in weak diplomatic and economic position when faced with China. If they had instead become more tightly coupled with their neighbors like Korea and Taiwan, they’d be in a much better position to check the power of a rising China (think Germany within the context of the EU). Of course this isn’t entirely Japan’s fault, as the US funded and backed right-wing nationalists in just about all of these countries, so they could play them off each other as was useful to their interests.
    - Pica_soO 8y ago
      Turns out the people the CIA finds the most sympathetic and "tuned towards our side" are usually able to send the whole population flying towards the opposition. I guess somewhere in Langley, there is a uttermost secret file analyzing the recruiting and support patterns, summing it up with: Nobody is as good at subverting the USA longterm goals in any region then the CIA.
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    The period before Japanese-US military cooperation saw Japan controlling most of China, so kind of hard to believe it's served them well.

knuththetruth 8y ago

Yes, a small cadre of extremists did this, after they were kicked out of the Japanese Communist Party for being violent nut jobs. They were by no means exemplary of the movement. At the same time, the right-wing in Japan (who was composed of former war criminals and had deep ties to organized crime in the country), was extensively funded and provided counterintelligence on their political opponents by the CIA. This intentional subversion of Japanese democracy guaranteed that the country could be used (at great cost to the Japanese people) as a forward operating base for US imperialism in SE Asia, something which was, and continues to be, deeply unpopular, even by those who are not “radical leftists.” https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contamination-kadena-air-bases-dirty-secret/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contam...

gedy 8y ago
I really dislike the characterization of Vietnam as US "Imperialism" when it was more a proxy war between US and USSR and/or futile involvement in another countries civil war. Many, many people appreciated the US fighting back against a communist takeover. Hiding behind "nationalism" was a PR move by revolutionary leadership, and not the real/main driver for it
- knuththetruth 8y ago
  The country devolved into civil war after the US deposed and had executed the country’s leader, who they had previously corruptly installed, but I guess found insufficiently compliant. If it’s not “imperialism” to fix elections, then overthrow and murder the people you help elected, pushing the country into horrific violence (which you then exacerbate), I’d like to know what rises to the level of your definition of the term. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup
  - buttcoinslol 8y ago
    The country was undergoing decolonization following WWII and got caught in the middle of two nuclear powers who couldn't openly fight each other without risking a nuclear exchange. It's a miracle that Vietnam isn't split in two like Korea. I'm not trying to rationalize the conduct of the US, there's plenty of blood on our hands when it comes to removing/installing foreign leaders, but this was a very complex situation with many players that lasted for over 30 years following the end of WWII. It's disingenuous to reduce it to 'American imperialism'.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      I don’t think “American imperialism” has to be a reduction. American imperialism is one part of a complex picture.
  - buy1get0 8y ago
    to be fair, you should mention what North Vietnamese government did AFTER the war: concentration camps, "New Economic Zones" that forced land from South Vietnamese, and the resulting boat people...
    - gedy 8y ago
      And in the North before any American military involvement. Hence the 1 million plus refugees from the North to South. Most of whom greatly desired to not be under communism, which was clearly the aggressor.
buy1get0 8y ago
I'm very impressed with your skill of justification using: > "Yes, a small cadre of extremists did this" Also where's the source for "they were kicked out of the Japanese Communist Party"? Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Communist_Party#Post-war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Communist_Party#Post-... > Then after the Korean War broke out, the party staged some acts of terrorism or sabotage, which resulted in a loss of popular confidence. the plane kidnapping wasn't the only one - it's one of many
phobosdeimos 8y ago
To be fair Japanese-US military cooperation has served both sides well. If the US continues to decline Japan will have to find a way to get along with China.
- buy1get0 8y ago
  > Japan will have to find a way to get along with China It'll be very difficult to "get along with China"... China (PRC) is the New Thug Nation Look at China building "island bases" on South China Sea (ironic name, because the area is bordering Vietnam/Malaysia/Philippines) China's trying to claim what isn't 100% its own out of greed, even though the bordering countries are protesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTPMHC7zHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTPMHC7zHY
- knuththetruth 8y ago
  I would argue the opposite. US backing of Japan has allowed them to maintain an insular chauvinism relative to their neighbors that has put them in weak diplomatic and economic position when faced with China. If they had instead become more tightly coupled with their neighbors like Korea and Taiwan, they’d be in a much better position to check the power of a rising China (think Germany within the context of the EU). Of course this isn’t entirely Japan’s fault, as the US funded and backed right-wing nationalists in just about all of these countries, so they could play them off each other as was useful to their interests.
  - Pica_soO 8y ago
    Turns out the people the CIA finds the most sympathetic and "tuned towards our side" are usually able to send the whole population flying towards the opposition. I guess somewhere in Langley, there is a uttermost secret file analyzing the recruiting and support patterns, summing it up with: Nobody is as good at subverting the USA longterm goals in any region then the CIA.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  The period before Japanese-US military cooperation saw Japan controlling most of China, so kind of hard to believe it's served them well.