4 ms·
I could be misinterpreting your comment, but it reads like a broad misunderstanding of the role, economics, and value-add of contemporary publishing. Here is a
by bnewbold 8y ago
I could be misinterpreting your comment, but it reads like a broad misunderstanding of the role, economics, and value-add of contemporary publishing.
Here is a (now somewhat old) breakdown of per-article costs, contrasting open access and subscription journals: https://www.nature.com/news/open-access-the-true-cost-of-science-publishing-1.12676 https://www.nature.com/news/open-access-the-true-cost-of-sci...
From my perspective the main values that an modern open access publication provide are primarily emotional labor: 1) herding cats: all those reviewers and editors that are volunteering are incredibly flaky and need to be hounded by phone, in person, etc. This can't be automated because everybody ignores bots. 2) resolving disputes. hopefully the median paper goes through the process smoothly, but any dispute involving prominent researchers will require dozens of hours of careful mediation, fact-checking, and follow-up. 3) generally being a responsible institution (not suffering fraud or embezzlement, planning for change over time, etc), which is valuable because humans don't have the time or capacity to judge every piece of content from scratch and fall back on reputation. All of these tasks require competent, savy, and highly trained folks, or the whole thing falls apart. Many in the old (subscription) world would say that open access publishers have already cut corners at $3k/article, and if you read around on the internet everybody complains about how long it takes to get responses or resolve disputes, so maybe they are right.
If these numbers sound totally bogus to you, maybe you should jump in to the publishing business and undercut everybody with superior service? Try writing a business model. As to whether we need publishing at all, i'd also try convincing researchers and authors to just post their results on blogs or wikis, which have zero barriers, require no new development, etc. I think authors/researchers value the services publishers provide, even apart from the whole branding/reputation/incentives game. Even pre-print repositories involve a degree of labor to review, moderate, and resolve disputes.
"automatically typeset using LaTeX" is only a norm in a few fields, which are all relatively well resourced and tech-savy. The fact that extra typesetting labor is involved in fields that don't use LaTeX might be one reason that pre-prints have been slower to take of in fields not covered by, eg, arxiv.org.
Another class of costly labor is copy editing and getting details right. This means things like tracking down every single citation and making sure they exist and are formatted correctly, spelling corrections, making graphs color-blind accessible, etc. This is hard to automate with current tooling; a lot of time and resources are currently being spent on next-generation open source publishing/manuscript pipelines to make this sort of thing more machine-verifiable, but it's going to be a long struggle to get authors (legitimately busy and distracted and over please-do-everything-this-new-disruptive-way-please-ed) to change their established field-specific workflows.
- n4r9 8y ago> If these numbers sound totally bogus to you, maybe you should jump in to the publishing business and undercut everybody with superior service? This process has begun in several fields: - https://quantum-journal.org https://quantum-journal.org - http://discreteanalysisjournal.com http://discreteanalysisjournal.com - https://lmcs.episciences.org https://lmcs.episciences.org The reason that these types of journals have not completely disrupted those fields is not that their business model is flawed (I don't think they are even for-profit), but that academics know that their future job prospects rely on the reputation of journals they have published in.
- naasking 8y ago> This can't be automated because everybody ignores bots They can't ignore the fact that their work won't get published until they've finished their required number of reviews. It's easy to build in the right incentives, and review work should be part of thier professional responsibilities, and can be baked into the publishing platform they use.
- betterunix2 8y agoMaybe the publishing companies are doing something useful in other fields, but in my own field the only reason we bother with Springer is that they have brand recognition among university administrators. Nobody I know sees any value beyond that, and some have even complained that Springer's paid editors have reduced the quality of published articles (at one CRYPTO conference a few years ago, someone pointed out several instances where Springer had introduced spelling errors). At a few IACR members meetings people have questioned the need to bother with Springer, given that the IACR is more than capable of organizing things. "If these numbers sound totally bogus to you, maybe you should jump in to the publishing business and undercut everybody with superior service?" I think you misunderstood my point: I think publishing companies are completely obsolete and that we should do away with them. Once upon a time publishing companies were necessary to distribute research papers on a mass scale. Today we have the Internet, which serves that need at far lower cost and also makes it easier to organize things like peer review. Prior to the printing press there were no scientific journals, and knowledge was spread peer-to-peer and at great expense. Things changed because of what was a new technology at the time. Now we have another new technology that is changing how scientific knowledge is spread, and scientists will have to change accordingly. "it's going to be a long struggle to get authors...to change their established field-specific workflows." If that is what keeps the publishing companies relevant, I would say they are a dying industry and that we should hasten their death.