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I have to wonder about the point of your comment. The one you replied to is an interesting tale posted in the comments of a very similar story. It seemed to hav

I have to wonder about the point of your comment. The one you replied to is an interesting tale posted in the comments of a very similar story. It seemed to have many points: technology is making the trip easier, it’s well worth making, and there are a lot of seriously poor people living along the route. Your point, on the other hand, seems to be that the other poster should feel really bad for being wealthy enough to make the trip. Which is a pretty crappy point to make.

jsmthrowaway 8y ago
That’s what you got? Calling out a very colonial, otherizing view of the world, and I’m upset he’s got money? The money is illustrative of the sentiment, not the call to arms. That’s twice now I’ve called out a serious cultural issue on HN and the reply has reinterpreted my meaning along an axis of wealth generation, which is a pattern I’m starting to notice (and it fits). Literally, you replied the words “seriously poor” to me, while knocking me for calling him rich, in your interpretation. The best part of you saying that is that, like the guy you’re sticking up for, you fail to understand those cultures predate your opinion of economics. They’re not pursuing capitalism and dominating the world with tech, and instead fish to survive instead of $20 butter (horrors!) and somehow this is worth noting because the white people showed up, took everything, introduced currency, then started looking at them funny for not having currency. To buy the $20 butter THEY BROUGHT TO THEM. Pop quiz: do either of you, at this moment, understand the role of butter in Arctic First Nations cuisine? ARE THERE COWS IN THE ARCTIC? Christ, I’m almost emotional at the display of complete idiocy. And now they’re cultural attractions for Cirrus owners on their way past the non-West where there are no Starbucks. People who speak like him and you, and reinforce the idea that there’s weird shit outside of this bubble, are a significant contributor to the cancerous toxicity this community injects into the industry and the larger world. The problem is one you’ve spotted: it just sounds like a nice story. It isn’t. It reinforces a divisive view that a lot of wealthier white people have about people who aren’t them. And that comes across largely unconsciously in a lot of the economic output of this very community. So yeah, I call it out, and wait out the very people who need to understand that downvoting it to hide that unpleasantness rather than even acknowledge my side, and continue sighing.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Ok, now I don’t understand what your point is at all. I know all of these words, but I can’t combine them into a coherent thought when arranged in this sequence. The best I can figure out is, we’re not supposed to call people “poor” just because they live in bad conditions and have little money, because that is somehow imposing our values on a culture that doesn’t share them?
  - jsmthrowaway 8y ago
    Watch the difference: “Those people up there sleep 15 to a room and have a sustenance existence. They aren’t doing it to be a cultural attraction, they actually have to fish to live. How sad. I immediately ran back to the other people like me to breaking news bulletin that there are other people in the world who don’t obsess about Javascript frameworks and convertible notes.” “I spent some time with indigenous communities who still support themselves the same way they have even before my ancestors hit this continent, and I sat down with them, and listened to stories and partook of their hospitality. I still correspond with some of the friends I met, and I’m rounded out by the perspective I gained in people who are not like me.” Think about why you typed the word “bad” behind conditions, or why aviators typed “sad”. This is the entire crux: it’s bad or sad in your culture and perspective. I dated a lovely woman who descended from the very Inuit tribes you two are hand waving at, and I have met no group of people more generous nor proud of their heritage, while acknowledging the difficulty of integrating into white people customs, than them. There is absolutely no consideration among either of you that you might be lacking perspective, might have something to learn, and instead sit back on your expensive computer judging a group of people you’ve never touched and explaining them. That is completely and irredeemably cancerous, and the continued disingenuous unwillingness of this community to even approach understanding that is making the entire fucking planet worse, especially now that it wields the megaphone of tech to enforce its culture worldwide.
    - throwaway894345 8y ago
      > I dated a lovely woman who descended from the very Inuit tribes you two are hand waving at Wow. Just wow. You're bragging about dating an indigenous woman? I find that to be very colonialist and sexist. Your use of their lived experiences to make yourself appear woke is also problematic. I'm just kidding. Could you imagine how insufferably boring I would be if I left comments like these sincerely?

jsmthrowaway 8y ago

That’s what you got? Calling out a very colonial, otherizing view of the world, and I’m upset he’s got money? The money is illustrative of the sentiment, not the call to arms. That’s twice now I’ve called out a serious cultural issue on HN and the reply has reinterpreted my meaning along an axis of wealth generation, which is a pattern I’m starting to notice (and it fits). Literally, you replied the words “seriously poor” to me, while knocking me for calling him rich, in your interpretation. The best part of you saying that is that, like the guy you’re sticking up for, you fail to understand those cultures predate your opinion of economics. They’re not pursuing capitalism and dominating the world with tech, and instead fish to survive instead of $20 butter (horrors!) and somehow this is worth noting because the white people showed up, took everything, introduced currency, then started looking at them funny for not having currency. To buy the $20 butter THEY BROUGHT TO THEM. Pop quiz: do either of you, at this moment, understand the role of butter in Arctic First Nations cuisine? ARE THERE COWS IN THE ARCTIC? Christ, I’m almost emotional at the display of complete idiocy. And now they’re cultural attractions for Cirrus owners on their way past the non-West where there are no Starbucks. People who speak like him and you, and reinforce the idea that there’s weird shit outside of this bubble, are a significant contributor to the cancerous toxicity this community injects into the industry and the larger world. The problem is one you’ve spotted: it just sounds like a nice story. It isn’t. It reinforces a divisive view that a lot of wealthier white people have about people who aren’t them. And that comes across largely unconsciously in a lot of the economic output of this very community. So yeah, I call it out, and wait out the very people who need to understand that downvoting it to hide that unpleasantness rather than even acknowledge my side, and continue sighing.

mikeash 8y ago
Ok, now I don’t understand what your point is at all. I know all of these words, but I can’t combine them into a coherent thought when arranged in this sequence. The best I can figure out is, we’re not supposed to call people “poor” just because they live in bad conditions and have little money, because that is somehow imposing our values on a culture that doesn’t share them?
- jsmthrowaway 8y ago
  Watch the difference: “Those people up there sleep 15 to a room and have a sustenance existence. They aren’t doing it to be a cultural attraction, they actually have to fish to live. How sad. I immediately ran back to the other people like me to breaking news bulletin that there are other people in the world who don’t obsess about Javascript frameworks and convertible notes.” “I spent some time with indigenous communities who still support themselves the same way they have even before my ancestors hit this continent, and I sat down with them, and listened to stories and partook of their hospitality. I still correspond with some of the friends I met, and I’m rounded out by the perspective I gained in people who are not like me.” Think about why you typed the word “bad” behind conditions, or why aviators typed “sad”. This is the entire crux: it’s bad or sad in your culture and perspective. I dated a lovely woman who descended from the very Inuit tribes you two are hand waving at, and I have met no group of people more generous nor proud of their heritage, while acknowledging the difficulty of integrating into white people customs, than them. There is absolutely no consideration among either of you that you might be lacking perspective, might have something to learn, and instead sit back on your expensive computer judging a group of people you’ve never touched and explaining them. That is completely and irredeemably cancerous, and the continued disingenuous unwillingness of this community to even approach understanding that is making the entire fucking planet worse, especially now that it wields the megaphone of tech to enforce its culture worldwide.
  - throwaway894345 8y ago
    > I dated a lovely woman who descended from the very Inuit tribes you two are hand waving at Wow. Just wow. You're bragging about dating an indigenous woman? I find that to be very colonialist and sexist. Your use of their lived experiences to make yourself appear woke is also problematic. I'm just kidding. Could you imagine how insufferably boring I would be if I left comments like these sincerely?