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I strongly believe IA or any serious project working on permanent persistence must provide an option (opt-in if you will) to make the published material irremov

I strongly believe IA or any serious project working on permanent persistence must provide an option (opt-in if you will) to make the published material irremovable, à la arXiv [1]. [1] Red parts of https://arxiv.org/help/license https://arxiv.org/help/license

quickben 8y ago
And that is your right. However most people would like to remove slander with a court order.
- ezequiel-garzon 8y ago
  Pretty sure arXiv would remove slander with a court order as well. It's an unrelated issue.
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    If material can be removed, it's not irremovable.
    - mehrdadn 8y ago
      I think it's fair to assume "not-${VERB}able" means "as not-${VERB}able as legally possible".
      - ndr 8y ago
        This gets tricky with things like blockchains.
    - lapinot 8y ago
      We regularly confuse irrevocability of licenses and actual availability. The former is something we here probably agree cannot not make sense (once the beans are spilled there's no going back, you can't withdraw intellectual property: what you gave is now irrevocably tied to the recipient, they gained knowledge). The latter is clearly wrong: there's no such thing as universal availability. As humans behinds keyboards we pretty much decide in any way we want what part of (information about) our knowledge we share.
    - ezequiel-garzon 8y ago
      My choice of words was indeed not optimal, though you probably know that ambiguity pervades natural languages, and that it is yet often clear what was meant. I want to hope that you don’t fear physical amputation when a friend says to you “give me a hand”, for instance.
marknadal 8y ago
Thank you for bringing this up, it is another reason we need mutable data structures in the decentralized web - for social reasons, not just technological. In another thread, I also mention that immutability creates algorithmic complexity that makes it difficult to scale: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17693920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17693920

quickben 8y ago

And that is your right. However most people would like to remove slander with a court order.

ezequiel-garzon 8y ago
Pretty sure arXiv would remove slander with a court order as well. It's an unrelated issue.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  If material can be removed, it's not irremovable.
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    I think it's fair to assume "not-${VERB}able" means "as not-${VERB}able as legally possible".
    - ndr 8y ago
      This gets tricky with things like blockchains.
  - lapinot 8y ago
    We regularly confuse irrevocability of licenses and actual availability. The former is something we here probably agree cannot not make sense (once the beans are spilled there's no going back, you can't withdraw intellectual property: what you gave is now irrevocably tied to the recipient, they gained knowledge). The latter is clearly wrong: there's no such thing as universal availability. As humans behinds keyboards we pretty much decide in any way we want what part of (information about) our knowledge we share.
  - ezequiel-garzon 8y ago
    My choice of words was indeed not optimal, though you probably know that ambiguity pervades natural languages, and that it is yet often clear what was meant. I want to hope that you don’t fear physical amputation when a friend says to you “give me a hand”, for instance.

marknadal 8y ago

Thank you for bringing this up, it is another reason we need mutable data structures in the decentralized web - for social reasons, not just technological. In another thread, I also mention that immutability creates algorithmic complexity that makes it difficult to scale: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17693920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17693920