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Author of notabug here. GUN uses a proof of work for account creation/login I think, but otherwise no there is no proof of work requirement for updates. I add

Author of notabug here. GUN uses a proof of work for account creation/login I think, but otherwise no there is no proof of work requirement for updates. I added the proof of work requirement to votes as part of my own validation. The difficulty at https://notabug.io https://notabug.io is set quite low, but https://dontsuemebro.com https://dontsuemebro.com is a peer that still has it set quite a bit higher, it rejects the cheaper votes at notabug.io so the scores/sorts are different. Spent a lot of time focusing on performance, notabug.io is running GUN with redis as a storage adapter and doing server side rendering to speed up the user experience. Domain pages are currently all gun/clientside though with out the server doing anything special to help at all. https://notabug.io/domain/youtube.com/ https://notabug.io/domain/youtube.com/ Also when using the infinite scroll feature or chat most all content is loaded directly through gun without intermediary REST calls.

drasticmeasures 8y ago
Decentralized Reddit sounds neat. But! I just upvoted myself to 200 points (making it the top post of all time on notabug), then saw someone else downvote me to -100 points (in 5 minutes), effectively censoring me. While this was just me with one computer, how will you stop bad actors (specially state actors, corporate actors or other political actors) with immense technological resources from gaming the voting system to silence people? It's a flaw inherent to democratic Internet voting-based comment filtering, no?
- go1dfish 8y ago
  > It's a flaw inherent to democratic Internet voting-based comment filtering, no? Quite possibly so; increasing the vote difficulty may help here; but one thing to keep in mind is that the proof of work voting is not necessarily the only voting approach that could be supported. The proof of working voting I think works best at a large scale of users something notabug doesn't have yet. It was something easy to implement that works decently enough for now; but with a decentralized network different peers can experiment with different voting and sorting strategies.
- MaulingMonkey 8y ago
  Decentralize how votes are weighed too. Reddit (tries to) weigh the votes of bots, sockpuppets, and other no-do-gooders to 0, and the rest of us to 1. Similarly, perhaps you weigh the votes of your friends to 1, your friend's friends to max(1,their_friends/10), and your friend's friends friend's to max(0.1,their_friends/100). Except for bob, who's votes you weigh at 0, because he's always getting his account hacked or suckered into yet another bitcoin ponzi scheme. There won't be any single point of truth as to the "real" points of a post in this kind of model, but that's probably OK. Actually, there already wasn't: The same link in two different subreddits might gain wildly different amounts of points, with the subreddit adding as a proxy for a group of people who's votes you've decided to weight at 1. Tech aside, decentralization just puts the onus for more finely deciding the weights of people's votes on the end users instead of on admins. With the right tools you can manage and limit abuse. A flaw inherent in this model is doing admin stuff is probably more work than the average user wants to do, so such a model will probably never take off.
  - go1dfish 8y ago
    I recently described my plans for moderation here: https://notabug.io/t/notabug/comments/ea1104bf0535370d0b27a1dc56166064498b45c3/how-moderation-is-going-to-work-on-notabug https://notabug.io/t/notabug/comments/ea1104bf0535370d0b27a1... The goal here is that moderation won't prevent people from speaking it will make it possible to delegate filtering of content you don't like to other people in a way that doesn't censor the content you don't like outright. Open to suggestions and PRs.
  - drasticmeasures 8y ago
    In my inevitably biased view, I see democratic Internet voting-based comment filtering as a tool that will be exploited by state, corporate or other pretender political actors for censoring speech and promoting their own speech -- no matter the technical implementation, they have the resources to easily buy 30k votes to use on any thread and skew perception on topics vital to their agenda, and we have been doing so for years not just on Reddit with votes, but anywhere where there is an user-input box, and using a variety of textbook mass social engineering tactics. Knowing the problem so personally, I'm partial to throwing out voting-based comment filtering altogether and replacing it with a mix of the Metafilter and the Slashdot models: make registration an one-time $5 fee; let there be a "firehose" that isn't filtered by votes, but organized by date posted; let there be professional editors that select and curate user-posted links; and let the comments be organized by date from older to newest by default (this prevents a lot of the manipulation, as the oldest comments are usually free from manipulation, since we can't get to the thread faster, and undermine later manipulation, since usually people follow the leader comment), or, even better, get rid of comments altogether because a reliable and open forum like you had in the 1990s is something good (and dangerous) that you will never have again, or at least not without state-level attempts at infiltration.

drasticmeasures 8y ago

Decentralized Reddit sounds neat. But! I just upvoted myself to 200 points (making it the top post of all time on notabug), then saw someone else downvote me to -100 points (in 5 minutes), effectively censoring me. While this was just me with one computer, how will you stop bad actors (specially state actors, corporate actors or other political actors) with immense technological resources from gaming the voting system to silence people? It's a flaw inherent to democratic Internet voting-based comment filtering, no?

go1dfish 8y ago
> It's a flaw inherent to democratic Internet voting-based comment filtering, no? Quite possibly so; increasing the vote difficulty may help here; but one thing to keep in mind is that the proof of work voting is not necessarily the only voting approach that could be supported. The proof of working voting I think works best at a large scale of users something notabug doesn't have yet. It was something easy to implement that works decently enough for now; but with a decentralized network different peers can experiment with different voting and sorting strategies.
MaulingMonkey 8y ago
Decentralize how votes are weighed too. Reddit (tries to) weigh the votes of bots, sockpuppets, and other no-do-gooders to 0, and the rest of us to 1. Similarly, perhaps you weigh the votes of your friends to 1, your friend's friends to max(1,their_friends/10), and your friend's friends friend's to max(0.1,their_friends/100). Except for bob, who's votes you weigh at 0, because he's always getting his account hacked or suckered into yet another bitcoin ponzi scheme. There won't be any single point of truth as to the "real" points of a post in this kind of model, but that's probably OK. Actually, there already wasn't: The same link in two different subreddits might gain wildly different amounts of points, with the subreddit adding as a proxy for a group of people who's votes you've decided to weight at 1. Tech aside, decentralization just puts the onus for more finely deciding the weights of people's votes on the end users instead of on admins. With the right tools you can manage and limit abuse. A flaw inherent in this model is doing admin stuff is probably more work than the average user wants to do, so such a model will probably never take off.
- go1dfish 8y ago
  I recently described my plans for moderation here: https://notabug.io/t/notabug/comments/ea1104bf0535370d0b27a1dc56166064498b45c3/how-moderation-is-going-to-work-on-notabug https://notabug.io/t/notabug/comments/ea1104bf0535370d0b27a1... The goal here is that moderation won't prevent people from speaking it will make it possible to delegate filtering of content you don't like to other people in a way that doesn't censor the content you don't like outright. Open to suggestions and PRs.
- drasticmeasures 8y ago
  In my inevitably biased view, I see democratic Internet voting-based comment filtering as a tool that will be exploited by state, corporate or other pretender political actors for censoring speech and promoting their own speech -- no matter the technical implementation, they have the resources to easily buy 30k votes to use on any thread and skew perception on topics vital to their agenda, and we have been doing so for years not just on Reddit with votes, but anywhere where there is an user-input box, and using a variety of textbook mass social engineering tactics. Knowing the problem so personally, I'm partial to throwing out voting-based comment filtering altogether and replacing it with a mix of the Metafilter and the Slashdot models: make registration an one-time $5 fee; let there be a "firehose" that isn't filtered by votes, but organized by date posted; let there be professional editors that select and curate user-posted links; and let the comments be organized by date from older to newest by default (this prevents a lot of the manipulation, as the oldest comments are usually free from manipulation, since we can't get to the thread faster, and undermine later manipulation, since usually people follow the leader comment), or, even better, get rid of comments altogether because a reliable and open forum like you had in the 1990s is something good (and dangerous) that you will never have again, or at least not without state-level attempts at infiltration.