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Vietnam War Deserters Who Sought Asylum in Sweden

56 points by raleighm 8y ago

tedeh 8y ago
All Vietnam war deserters were given a conditional amnesty by Gerald Ford shortly after he pardoned Nixon in 1974, and all deserters were ultimately pardoned by the Carter administration in 1977 so that they could return home.
buy1get0 8y ago
> the Japanese radical left ... appealed to me as a classic David and Goliath struggle, with a small group of idealistic young anti-war activists well those 'David's coordinated with N.Korea to kidnap people to North korea... One famous example: Japanese Airlines 351 - kidnapped a plane & tried to take everyone to N. Korea (but S. Korean gov. fooled them into believing Kimpo airport as a N.Korean one...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_351 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_351
- knuththetruth 8y ago
  Yes, a small cadre of extremists did this, after they were kicked out of the Japanese Communist Party for being violent nut jobs. They were by no means exemplary of the movement. At the same time, the right-wing in Japan (who was composed of former war criminals and had deep ties to organized crime in the country), was extensively funded and provided counterintelligence on their political opponents by the CIA. This intentional subversion of Japanese democracy guaranteed that the country could be used (at great cost to the Japanese people) as a forward operating base for US imperialism in SE Asia, something which was, and continues to be, deeply unpopular, even by those who are not “radical leftists.” https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contamination-kadena-air-bases-dirty-secret/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contam...
  - gedy 8y ago
    I really dislike the characterization of Vietnam as US "Imperialism" when it was more a proxy war between US and USSR and/or futile involvement in another countries civil war. Many, many people appreciated the US fighting back against a communist takeover. Hiding behind "nationalism" was a PR move by revolutionary leadership, and not the real/main driver for it
    - knuththetruth 8y ago
      The country devolved into civil war after the US deposed and had executed the country’s leader, who they had previously corruptly installed, but I guess found insufficiently compliant. If it’s not “imperialism” to fix elections, then overthrow and murder the people you help elected, pushing the country into horrific violence (which you then exacerbate), I’d like to know what rises to the level of your definition of the term. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup
      - buttcoinslol 8y ago
        The country was undergoing decolonization following WWII and got caught in the middle of two nuclear powers who couldn't openly fight each other without risking a nuclear exchange. It's a miracle that Vietnam isn't split in two like Korea. I'm not trying to rationalize the conduct of the US, there's plenty of blood on our hands when it comes to removing/installing foreign leaders, but this was a very complex situation with many players that lasted for over 30 years following the end of WWII. It's disingenuous to reduce it to 'American imperialism'.
        mikeash 8y ago
        I don’t think “American imperialism” has to be a reduction. American imperialism is one part of a complex picture.
      - buy1get0 8y ago
        to be fair, you should mention what North Vietnamese government did AFTER the war: concentration camps, "New Economic Zones" that forced land from South Vietnamese, and the resulting boat people...
alkonaut 8y ago
What was the reason passport holding US citizens had to be “smuggled” to leave e.g Japan? Was it because US authorities would withdraw their passports as soon as they were discovered to be missing? In those days I’d expect that type of information to travel quite slowly. Or were soldiers not even allow to keep their own passports when based abroad?
- Danieru 8y ago
  People in Japan because of the US military are on something called a SOFA visa. This visa is of course invalid if you are deserting but that is not the major issue. For soldiers entering Japan they are not brought through Japanese immigration. Which means even if they had a passport they would not have the entry stamps. Thus any attempt to leave through immigration will only raise suspicions and get you handed over to the MPs.
- AdrianB1 8y ago
  The explanation is in the article.
  - rconti 8y ago
    Was it? I had the same question. After reading your comment, I went back and searched and still don't see it. All I see is that they would have been in Japan illegally, which doesn't answer the question as to why Japan wouldn't let them OUT.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      They'd investigate as it's very weird to try to go out of a country that you didn't enter - that suggests that maybe you've entered illegally or something else is going on. They're allies to the US - if they see something suspicious with an US person, they will report it.
      - rconti 8y ago
        I've always found this so odd. Passports are so often stamped on random pages (or not stamped at all) that I wonder how the border guards make heads or tails of them. But I guess all that matters is that the guards in that country understand their own system.
rurban 8y ago
This is an extremely interesting and underrepresented story. I only know of the self-destructive story of the Japanese radical left, the United Red Army, RAF sympathizers, which is depicted in Wakamatsu Kōji's masterpiece "United Red Army". Crazy times.

56 points by raleighm 8y ago

All Vietnam war deserters were given a conditional amnesty by Gerald Ford shortly after he pardoned Nixon in 1974, and all deserters were ultimately pardoned by the Carter administration in 1977 so that they could return home.

buy1get0 8y ago

> the Japanese radical left ... appealed to me as a classic David and Goliath struggle, with a small group of idealistic young anti-war activists well those 'David's coordinated with N.Korea to kidnap people to North korea... One famous example: Japanese Airlines 351 - kidnapped a plane & tried to take everyone to N. Korea (but S. Korean gov. fooled them into believing Kimpo airport as a N.Korean one...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_351 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_351

knuththetruth 8y ago
Yes, a small cadre of extremists did this, after they were kicked out of the Japanese Communist Party for being violent nut jobs. They were by no means exemplary of the movement. At the same time, the right-wing in Japan (who was composed of former war criminals and had deep ties to organized crime in the country), was extensively funded and provided counterintelligence on their political opponents by the CIA. This intentional subversion of Japanese democracy guaranteed that the country could be used (at great cost to the Japanese people) as a forward operating base for US imperialism in SE Asia, something which was, and continues to be, deeply unpopular, even by those who are not “radical leftists.” https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contamination-kadena-air-bases-dirty-secret/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/09/national/contam...
- gedy 8y ago
  I really dislike the characterization of Vietnam as US "Imperialism" when it was more a proxy war between US and USSR and/or futile involvement in another countries civil war. Many, many people appreciated the US fighting back against a communist takeover. Hiding behind "nationalism" was a PR move by revolutionary leadership, and not the real/main driver for it
  - knuththetruth 8y ago
    The country devolved into civil war after the US deposed and had executed the country’s leader, who they had previously corruptly installed, but I guess found insufficiently compliant. If it’s not “imperialism” to fix elections, then overthrow and murder the people you help elected, pushing the country into horrific violence (which you then exacerbate), I’d like to know what rises to the level of your definition of the term. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_Vietnamese_coup
    - buttcoinslol 8y ago
      The country was undergoing decolonization following WWII and got caught in the middle of two nuclear powers who couldn't openly fight each other without risking a nuclear exchange. It's a miracle that Vietnam isn't split in two like Korea. I'm not trying to rationalize the conduct of the US, there's plenty of blood on our hands when it comes to removing/installing foreign leaders, but this was a very complex situation with many players that lasted for over 30 years following the end of WWII. It's disingenuous to reduce it to 'American imperialism'.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        I don’t think “American imperialism” has to be a reduction. American imperialism is one part of a complex picture.
    - buy1get0 8y ago
      to be fair, you should mention what North Vietnamese government did AFTER the war: concentration camps, "New Economic Zones" that forced land from South Vietnamese, and the resulting boat people...

alkonaut 8y ago

What was the reason passport holding US citizens had to be “smuggled” to leave e.g Japan? Was it because US authorities would withdraw their passports as soon as they were discovered to be missing? In those days I’d expect that type of information to travel quite slowly. Or were soldiers not even allow to keep their own passports when based abroad?

Danieru 8y ago
People in Japan because of the US military are on something called a SOFA visa. This visa is of course invalid if you are deserting but that is not the major issue. For soldiers entering Japan they are not brought through Japanese immigration. Which means even if they had a passport they would not have the entry stamps. Thus any attempt to leave through immigration will only raise suspicions and get you handed over to the MPs.
AdrianB1 8y ago
The explanation is in the article.
- rconti 8y ago
  Was it? I had the same question. After reading your comment, I went back and searched and still don't see it. All I see is that they would have been in Japan illegally, which doesn't answer the question as to why Japan wouldn't let them OUT.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    They'd investigate as it's very weird to try to go out of a country that you didn't enter - that suggests that maybe you've entered illegally or something else is going on. They're allies to the US - if they see something suspicious with an US person, they will report it.
    - rconti 8y ago
      I've always found this so odd. Passports are so often stamped on random pages (or not stamped at all) that I wonder how the border guards make heads or tails of them. But I guess all that matters is that the guards in that country understand their own system.

rurban 8y ago

This is an extremely interesting and underrepresented story. I only know of the self-destructive story of the Japanese radical left, the United Red Army, RAF sympathizers, which is depicted in Wakamatsu Kōji's masterpiece "United Red Army". Crazy times.