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>The important thing about congestion pricing is that it makes mass transit competitive. The other important thing about congestion pricing (as described in th

by danjoc 8y ago

>The important thing about congestion pricing is that it makes mass transit competitive. The other important thing about congestion pricing (as described in the article) is that it completely destroys privacy.

mertd 8y ago
Can we save the hyperbole? It is no more privacy invasive than using toll roads or using a credit card anywhere.
- deathanatos 8y ago
  A normal toll road might support a cash option. I feel like the kind of dynamic pricing here would be really onerous to handle if it was implemented with toll booths; that is, this type of pricing would require a transponder. And, AFAIK, no transponder offers the ability to load cash onto it. (That is, transponder manufacturers/operators require an incursion of one's privacy, despite there being no technical or legal requirement for it. I'm in America, YMMV.) Further, they have been shown to be used in spying (essentially) by cities[1] and even in political attacks[2]. Transponders are also a right PITA for anyone traveling. Boston, for example, has some really lightly marked toll roads now that are all transponder/camera-only; if you mistakenly drive a rental through those without realizing it (which is really easy), the rental car company charges ~$25 for the "service". [1]: https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/location-tracking/newly-obtained-records-reveal-extensive-monitoring-e-zpass https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/location-tracki... [2]: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/christie-use-tollbooth-data-and-why-location-privacy-must-be-protected https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/christie-use-tollbooth...
  - gergles 8y ago
    You can purchase a New York EZPass in cash at places like Costco, and reload it with cash at any 7-11 or other Visa ReadyLink merchant. You are required to register the EZPass to get a reload card in order to do this (which just requires you giving them your name and address, which they already have by taking a photo of your license plate), but if you are really averse to registration, you can just keep buying new EZPasses at retail, I guess.
gumby 8y ago
> congestion pricing ... completely destroys privacy. It need not: the toll module could contain "cash" (a cash-like analogue, like credit tokens you refill at 7-11) instead of an account number. Somehow such systems never get deployed though :-(. People have become quite tolerant of it, too: they routinely drive around with vehicles bearing unique serial numbers and permit their driving licenses to have tons of unnecessary info (all that's really needed is a photo or fingerprint, what class of license you have, and possibly an expiration date). But it's easy to design systems that don't leak secrets. I wonder if GDPR could be used as a cudgel for system design?

by danjoc 8y ago

mertd 8y ago

Can we save the hyperbole? It is no more privacy invasive than using toll roads or using a credit card anywhere.

deathanatos 8y ago
A normal toll road might support a cash option. I feel like the kind of dynamic pricing here would be really onerous to handle if it was implemented with toll booths; that is, this type of pricing would require a transponder. And, AFAIK, no transponder offers the ability to load cash onto it. (That is, transponder manufacturers/operators require an incursion of one's privacy, despite there being no technical or legal requirement for it. I'm in America, YMMV.) Further, they have been shown to be used in spying (essentially) by cities[1] and even in political attacks[2]. Transponders are also a right PITA for anyone traveling. Boston, for example, has some really lightly marked toll roads now that are all transponder/camera-only; if you mistakenly drive a rental through those without realizing it (which is really easy), the rental car company charges ~$25 for the "service". [1]: https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/location-tracking/newly-obtained-records-reveal-extensive-monitoring-e-zpass https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/location-tracki... [2]: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/christie-use-tollbooth-data-and-why-location-privacy-must-be-protected https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/christie-use-tollbooth...
- gergles 8y ago
  You can purchase a New York EZPass in cash at places like Costco, and reload it with cash at any 7-11 or other Visa ReadyLink merchant. You are required to register the EZPass to get a reload card in order to do this (which just requires you giving them your name and address, which they already have by taking a photo of your license plate), but if you are really averse to registration, you can just keep buying new EZPasses at retail, I guess.

gumby 8y ago

> congestion pricing ... completely destroys privacy. It need not: the toll module could contain "cash" (a cash-like analogue, like credit tokens you refill at 7-11) instead of an account number. Somehow such systems never get deployed though :-(. People have become quite tolerant of it, too: they routinely drive around with vehicles bearing unique serial numbers and permit their driving licenses to have tons of unnecessary info (all that's really needed is a photo or fingerprint, what class of license you have, and possibly an expiration date). But it's easy to design systems that don't leak secrets. I wonder if GDPR could be used as a cudgel for system design?