3 ms·

At the moment, everyone pays the same for roads, regardless of whether or not they use them. Charging only those people who possess the means to drive, AND tho

At the moment, everyone pays the same for roads, regardless of whether or not they use them. Charging only those people who possess the means to drive, AND those people who choose to drive, sounds like it could reduce the harms to those of lesser means. Right now, if I cannot afford to own a car and use my bicycle to get around town, I pay for someone else to use roads, because my taxes subsidize those roads. So, if we paid for roads not out of general taxes, but out of tolls, it seems like it could be cheaper for those who don't drive. Also, for what reasons do you suppose that demand is inelastic? I'm not sure what mechanism you're assuming is not sensitive to price.

vageli 8y ago
> At the moment, everyone pays the same for roads, regardless of whether or not they use them. > Charging only those people who possess the means to drive, AND those people who choose to drive, sounds like it could reduce the harms to those of lesser means. > Right now, if I cannot afford to own a car and use my bicycle to get around town, I pay for someone else to use roads, because my taxes subsidize those roads. > So, if we paid for roads not out of general taxes, but out of tolls, it seems like it could be cheaper for those who don't drive. > Also, for what reasons do you suppose that demand is inelastic? I'm not sure what mechanism you're assuming is not sensitive to price. Most people would be hard pressed to up and leave their jobs if tomorrow the cost of their commute doubled.
maym86 8y ago
This is wrong. Tax is already tiered by income so people in lower brackets pay less for roads right now and richer people pay more. By narrowing the focus to people who have to drive on the roads and doing it in a flat way using tolls will hurt poor people the most if they have to drive to work. Having to drive to and from a job at a certain time is relatively inelastic especially for lower paying service jobs. With tolls the same money will be spread over fewer people in a flatter way.
- gowld 8y ago
  > Tax is already tiered by income Not in all jurisdictions. Sales taxes and gas taxes and license fees are not tiered by income. Property taxes are vaguely tiered by income.
  - maym86 8y ago
    Right, other taxes could be better implemented too.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> At the moment, everyone pays the same for roads, regardless of whether or not they use them. No, everyone doesn't. Even leaving aside toll roads, which exist and are becoming more common, roads are often paid for out of license fees (vehicle and driver) and gas taxes, which are all related to road use. And if they were paid purely out of general taxes, well, every doesn't pay the same for those, either, though tax payments probably aren't closely correlated with road use. Though, almost certainly they are positively correlated with total, including induced, road use, since total consumption is positively correlated with income, and more consumption is linked to more direct (e.g., travel) and induced (e.g., for shipping goods) road use.
mnm1 8y ago
So you don't bike on the road with your bike? I sure hope you don't bike on the sidewalk like some people ... Unless you're biking on trails only, FYI, you're still using the road.
chrismcb 8y ago
Everyone uses the roads. Maybe not directly.

vageli 8y ago

> At the moment, everyone pays the same for roads, regardless of whether or not they use them. > Charging only those people who possess the means to drive, AND those people who choose to drive, sounds like it could reduce the harms to those of lesser means. > Right now, if I cannot afford to own a car and use my bicycle to get around town, I pay for someone else to use roads, because my taxes subsidize those roads. > So, if we paid for roads not out of general taxes, but out of tolls, it seems like it could be cheaper for those who don't drive. > Also, for what reasons do you suppose that demand is inelastic? I'm not sure what mechanism you're assuming is not sensitive to price. Most people would be hard pressed to up and leave their jobs if tomorrow the cost of their commute doubled.

maym86 8y ago

This is wrong. Tax is already tiered by income so people in lower brackets pay less for roads right now and richer people pay more. By narrowing the focus to people who have to drive on the roads and doing it in a flat way using tolls will hurt poor people the most if they have to drive to work. Having to drive to and from a job at a certain time is relatively inelastic especially for lower paying service jobs. With tolls the same money will be spread over fewer people in a flatter way.

gowld 8y ago
> Tax is already tiered by income Not in all jurisdictions. Sales taxes and gas taxes and license fees are not tiered by income. Property taxes are vaguely tiered by income.
- maym86 8y ago
  Right, other taxes could be better implemented too.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> At the moment, everyone pays the same for roads, regardless of whether or not they use them. No, everyone doesn't. Even leaving aside toll roads, which exist and are becoming more common, roads are often paid for out of license fees (vehicle and driver) and gas taxes, which are all related to road use. And if they were paid purely out of general taxes, well, every doesn't pay the same for those, either, though tax payments probably aren't closely correlated with road use. Though, almost certainly they are positively correlated with total, including induced, road use, since total consumption is positively correlated with income, and more consumption is linked to more direct (e.g., travel) and induced (e.g., for shipping goods) road use.

mnm1 8y ago

So you don't bike on the road with your bike? I sure hope you don't bike on the sidewalk like some people ... Unless you're biking on trails only, FYI, you're still using the road.

chrismcb 8y ago

Everyone uses the roads. Maybe not directly.