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My job currently is mostly programming, but until about a year ago, it was mostly sysadmin and helpdesk monkey for a small-ish company (~75 users). In this tim

by krylon 8y ago

My job currently is mostly programming, but until about a year ago, it was mostly sysadmin and helpdesk monkey for a small-ish company (~75 users). In this time I have had enough inexplicable printer-related problems, that my views on printing are no longer fit for a public forum. If I could, I would go Office Space on each and every one of those hellish machines. But I need to remember, it's not the printer's fault, it's Windows - on GNU/Linux, printing has Just Worked(tm) for me for the last ... about ten years. Once upon a time I was reduced to converting my print jobs to the printer's native language with Ghostscript and then cat(1) the resulting files (one per page) to the printer's device file. But then came CUPS, and while some people still complain that GNU/Linux is not suitable for desktop use, when it comes to printing the experience is lightyears ahead of Windows.

mikestew 8y ago
I think that's where the parent was coming from. If you're used to using Macs (plug printer in, OS says, "a Brother L12B4, amirite? Cool, gimme a minute..."), and you go hook a new printer to a Windows box, the experience is going to make you go "'dafuq?" Why it has to be the way it is on Windows is a mystery to me. I'm sure there's a reason, and it's probably a completely understandable one ("decisions made in 1989, and backcompat"), but it drives me nuts when I have to deal with it.
scarface74 8y ago
Btw, Apple has owned CUPS since 2002 - 3 years after it was released in beta.
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
It is the printer manufacturers fault, Windows has had class based drivers since Vista (they could even be back ported to XP although that didn't wok very well). There is nothing in Windows that forces them to ship all the crap that sits in your notify area and bungs up your system.
- scarface74 8y ago
  If I understand what you’re saying - that still requires printer manufacturers to write and users to install printers. I have three printers at home (long story). I bring a Mac home, connect it to my network and it finds all three and I can immediately start printing. I bring home a Windows PC, I have to install printer drivers for three printers.
  - krylon 8y ago
    Well, I figure with CUPS (the printer system currently used by macOS and GNU/Linux and other open source Un_x systems), it is the responsibility of CUPS to support printers, while on Windows, it is the responsibility of printer manufacturers to supply drivers for their printers. Well, guess what - vendor-supplied drivers suck donkey-balls, while third-party drivers (as supplied by CUPS or GhostScript) focus on supporting the functionality the printer in question provides and nothing else. It's the same as with GPUs, except that printers are (AFAICT) less complicated than GPUs. In theory, Windows can do some things you can not replicate on GNU/Linux and/or macOS without major pain - e.g. that client submit their print jobs in b/w unless specifically requested otherwise (because on our support contract, color printing costs ~10x as much per page as b/w). In practice, though, it works about as reliably as trying to photograph a specific star in the sky while blindfolded and with - at best - a fuzzy idea what day it is. People keep telling me that Windows is a superior OS for desktop systems because it "just works", but clearly those people do not do a lot of printing. ;-)
    - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
      Windows has what Microsoft calls inbox drivers, these come with Windows/Windows Update. Stick with those drivers and it all looks a lot easier. In general though I agree, it's a mess and as a developer of output management software it causes me no end of problems.

by krylon 8y ago

mikestew 8y ago

I think that's where the parent was coming from. If you're used to using Macs (plug printer in, OS says, "a Brother L12B4, amirite? Cool, gimme a minute..."), and you go hook a new printer to a Windows box, the experience is going to make you go "'dafuq?" Why it has to be the way it is on Windows is a mystery to me. I'm sure there's a reason, and it's probably a completely understandable one ("decisions made in 1989, and backcompat"), but it drives me nuts when I have to deal with it.

scarface74 8y ago

Btw, Apple has owned CUPS since 2002 - 3 years after it was released in beta.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago

It is the printer manufacturers fault, Windows has had class based drivers since Vista (they could even be back ported to XP although that didn't wok very well). There is nothing in Windows that forces them to ship all the crap that sits in your notify area and bungs up your system.

scarface74 8y ago
If I understand what you’re saying - that still requires printer manufacturers to write and users to install printers. I have three printers at home (long story). I bring a Mac home, connect it to my network and it finds all three and I can immediately start printing. I bring home a Windows PC, I have to install printer drivers for three printers.
- krylon 8y ago
  Well, I figure with CUPS (the printer system currently used by macOS and GNU/Linux and other open source Un_x systems), it is the responsibility of CUPS to support printers, while on Windows, it is the responsibility of printer manufacturers to supply drivers for their printers. Well, guess what - vendor-supplied drivers suck donkey-balls, while third-party drivers (as supplied by CUPS or GhostScript) focus on supporting the functionality the printer in question provides and nothing else. It's the same as with GPUs, except that printers are (AFAICT) less complicated than GPUs. In theory, Windows can do some things you can not replicate on GNU/Linux and/or macOS without major pain - e.g. that client submit their print jobs in b/w unless specifically requested otherwise (because on our support contract, color printing costs ~10x as much per page as b/w). In practice, though, it works about as reliably as trying to photograph a specific star in the sky while blindfolded and with - at best - a fuzzy idea what day it is. People keep telling me that Windows is a superior OS for desktop systems because it "just works", but clearly those people do not do a lot of printing. ;-)
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    Windows has what Microsoft calls inbox drivers, these come with Windows/Windows Update. Stick with those drivers and it all looks a lot easier. In general though I agree, it's a mess and as a developer of output management software it causes me no end of problems.