3 ms·

Hm. As a woman, I can't say I've ever thought of harassment when men have started friendly conversation with me. Is that not a bit of an exaggeration? If a man

Hm. As a woman, I can't say I've ever thought of harassment when men have started friendly conversation with me. Is that not a bit of an exaggeration? If a man catcalled "nice tits" or something, then yeah, that would be harassment. But conversation? Not nearly the risk your describing, I don't think.

ironjunkie 8y ago
I agree with you, but I think people avoid even the possibility//higher risk associated with the awkward start of the conversation. I work in tech and some of my male coworkers privately tell me that they avoid talking to womens they don't know at networking events or at conferences because of the way it might be interpreted nowadays.
- callandreturn 8y ago
  I think there's a difference between initial awkwardness or fear of rejection -- which are totally valid feelings in social interaction, and not just limited to men -- and fear of being accused of harassment for making polite conversation. I also think that it's easy to get sucked into circle-jerks that promote and exaggerate these fears of being accused of harassment. As long as you're considerate and respectful, no reasonable person would think you're harassing them. There are always unreasonable people, that shouldn't divide us into men vs women, into groups that fear interacting with each other.
pixelperfect 8y ago
Most women would not consider such an ordinary social interaction to be harassment, but suppose a small fraction do - being perceived or accused of harassment is such a negative thing that it can be a strong deterrent even if there's a low chance of it actually happening.
- callandreturn 8y ago
  My following reply to ironjunkie is a reply to your comment as well -- I think what you said would be such a shame.
- s-shellfish 8y ago
  Most men aren't psychopaths, but a small fraction are. Perceiving all men as such even if there's a low chance of it actually happening...
  - jplayer01 8y ago
    If you're accused of harassment as a guy, that has huge negative social and career effects that are close to impossible to fight. Everybody turns against you and you're ostracized from your community. It's a big deal.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - s-shellfish 8y ago
      Of course it's a big deal. I never disagreed with that to begin with. Some people understand ostracism. That's why they don't do the things that cause ostracism.

ironjunkie 8y ago

I agree with you, but I think people avoid even the possibility//higher risk associated with the awkward start of the conversation. I work in tech and some of my male coworkers privately tell me that they avoid talking to womens they don't know at networking events or at conferences because of the way it might be interpreted nowadays.

callandreturn 8y ago
I think there's a difference between initial awkwardness or fear of rejection -- which are totally valid feelings in social interaction, and not just limited to men -- and fear of being accused of harassment for making polite conversation. I also think that it's easy to get sucked into circle-jerks that promote and exaggerate these fears of being accused of harassment. As long as you're considerate and respectful, no reasonable person would think you're harassing them. There are always unreasonable people, that shouldn't divide us into men vs women, into groups that fear interacting with each other.

pixelperfect 8y ago

Most women would not consider such an ordinary social interaction to be harassment, but suppose a small fraction do - being perceived or accused of harassment is such a negative thing that it can be a strong deterrent even if there's a low chance of it actually happening.

callandreturn 8y ago
My following reply to ironjunkie is a reply to your comment as well -- I think what you said would be such a shame.
s-shellfish 8y ago
Most men aren't psychopaths, but a small fraction are. Perceiving all men as such even if there's a low chance of it actually happening...
- jplayer01 8y ago
  If you're accused of harassment as a guy, that has huge negative social and career effects that are close to impossible to fight. Everybody turns against you and you're ostracized from your community. It's a big deal.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - s-shellfish 8y ago
    Of course it's a big deal. I never disagreed with that to begin with. Some people understand ostracism. That's why they don't do the things that cause ostracism.