4 ms·

Long-time (former) resident of NYC here (25+yrs) -- almost everyone I knew in NYC was open to using mass public transit, which is pretty impressive compared to

Long-time (former) resident of NYC here (25+yrs) -- almost everyone I knew in NYC was open to using mass public transit, which is pretty impressive compared to what I heard in other cities. So in theory a congestion tax would work well...except...the NYC subway system has deteriorated precipitously over the past 4 years to the extent where you almost have to drive, especially on nights/weekends/evenings I'd support a congestion tax if there was a way to avoid cars (in fact, i dislike both the concept and the task of driving)...but a congestion tax is just a regressive exclusion tax if mass transit does not work. In NYC mass transit does-not-work on weekends/evenings/nights. Those not familiar with the decline of NYC transit can read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-system-failure-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-... Here is a real example with evidence from two weekends ago when I was in NYC: PICTURE EVIDENCE: https://imgur.com/a/p4JCaPP https://imgur.com/a/p4JCaPP EVIDENCE NOTE 1: Monitor claiming F trains would arrive EVIDENCE NOTE 2: Sign contradicting what monitor says EVIDENCE NOTE 3: Monitor and Sign side-by-side I used the MTA Subway Time app and it also claimed F trains were on their way, these were obviously fake schedule data rather than real prospective arrivals data. So if you used the MTA Subway Time, you'd wait forever. This also suggests to me that perhaps some of the historical on-time uptime/arrival stats are fake as well. Now, given this level of dysfunction...would you risk a subway ride or just take a car/uber/lyft?

econ4all 8y ago
The assumption is that tax revenue would go to mending the subway system and other public transport. People will manage, it wouldn't be the first implementation of the tax, you'll end up with less cars on the road and more revenue and that is something you can work with.
- TuringNYC 8y ago
  That works in theory. In actuality the system is already overfunded compared to other cities and funds simply become fodder for well-connected contractors on large capital projects or union workers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-system-failure-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-... Here is an excerpt from the article: "Subway workers, including managers and administrative personnel, now make an average of about $155,000 annually in salary, overtime and benefits, according to a Times analysis of data compiled by the federal Department of Transportation. That is far more than in any other American transit system; the average in cities like Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington is less than $100,000 in total compensation annually."
  - econ4all 8y ago
    The tax won't be the only piece of reform, it will get the ball rolling though, you just need to lose the defeatist attitude.
    - closeparen 8y ago
      The other elements of reform are orthogonal to a crackdown on driving, and could just as easily be undertaken first. It’s magical thinking to assert that they will sort themselves out just because we made it harder to drive.
  - wool_gather 8y ago
    New York is also rather more expensive to live in than those other places. And perhaps those other places underpay: I'm not really sure why it's scandalous that the average* pay for someone working on a key city service allows them to comfortably raise a family in the city that they work for. Do we need to race each other to the bottom? --- *Note that it's "average", which means that there could indeed be some who are overpaid skewing the numbers for the rest.
ddoran 8y ago
The F train is horrendous. Problems almost every day.
- max_im 8y ago
  as someone who grew up relying on the F, any complaint about it will always get my upvote
  - arprocter 8y ago
    I used to take it one stop uptown in the mornings - often several downtown trains would come and go before one going in my direction would arrive. Incredibly annoying.

econ4all 8y ago

The assumption is that tax revenue would go to mending the subway system and other public transport. People will manage, it wouldn't be the first implementation of the tax, you'll end up with less cars on the road and more revenue and that is something you can work with.

TuringNYC 8y ago
That works in theory. In actuality the system is already overfunded compared to other cities and funds simply become fodder for well-connected contractors on large capital projects or union workers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-system-failure-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-... Here is an excerpt from the article: "Subway workers, including managers and administrative personnel, now make an average of about $155,000 annually in salary, overtime and benefits, according to a Times analysis of data compiled by the federal Department of Transportation. That is far more than in any other American transit system; the average in cities like Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington is less than $100,000 in total compensation annually."
- econ4all 8y ago
  The tax won't be the only piece of reform, it will get the ball rolling though, you just need to lose the defeatist attitude.
  - closeparen 8y ago
    The other elements of reform are orthogonal to a crackdown on driving, and could just as easily be undertaken first. It’s magical thinking to assert that they will sort themselves out just because we made it harder to drive.
- wool_gather 8y ago
  New York is also rather more expensive to live in than those other places. And perhaps those other places underpay: I'm not really sure why it's scandalous that the average* pay for someone working on a key city service allows them to comfortably raise a family in the city that they work for. Do we need to race each other to the bottom? --- *Note that it's "average", which means that there could indeed be some who are overpaid skewing the numbers for the rest.

ddoran 8y ago

The F train is horrendous. Problems almost every day.

max_im 8y ago
as someone who grew up relying on the F, any complaint about it will always get my upvote
- arprocter 8y ago
  I used to take it one stop uptown in the mornings - often several downtown trains would come and go before one going in my direction would arrive. Incredibly annoying.